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Amedee
Amedee, ASE Master Tech
Category: Car
Satisfied Customers: 21985
Experience:  ASE Master Tech advanced level specialist. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
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temp gauge bottoms out. traction light comes on & chimes s

Customer Question

temp gauge bottoms out. traction light comes on & chimes sound
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: Car
Expert:  Amedee replied 5 years ago.

HiCustomer Thank you for asking your question on JustAnswer. The other Experts and I are working on your answer. By the way, it would help us to know:

-How many miles are on your Car?
-WHat do you mean that the temp gauage bottoms out?
-What have you already tried?

-Are there any codes in the computer?

Thank you again for trusting us with your problem. Please reply as soon as possible so that we can finish answering your question.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
THE VEHICLE HAS 26,175 ORIGINAL MILES,TEMP GAUGE NEEDLE FALLS TO COLD AND WILL INTERMITENTLY GO BACK TO OPERATING TEMP.WE HAVE ALREADY TRIED A TRACTION CONTROL 6 WEEKS AGO WAS FINE TILL MONDAY, SINCE HAVE RECHECK GROUND WIRES @ LFT & RT KICK PANEL, GROUND CONNECTOR UNDER ENGINE COMPARTMENT.EVEN TRIED USED INSTRUMENT CLUSTER W/ 177,896 MILES
Expert:  Amedee replied 5 years ago.
Have we replaced the engine coolant tempature sensor for the gauge?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
YES WE HAVE REPLACED THE COOLANT SENSOR,SOME MORE INFO FOR YOU.THE SERIAL DATA WIRE IN THE DIAGNOSTIC CONNECTOR SHOULD SHOW VOLTAGE FLUCTUATION FROM 2 VOLTS TO 5 VOLTS WHEN VEHICLE IS RUNNING,WHEN THE PROBLEM OCCURS THE VOLTAGE GOES TO 5 VOLTS AND THERE IS NO COMMUNICATION AT ANY OF THE MODULES,I HAVE TRIED UNPLUGGING MODULES TO SEE IF THE PROBLEM GOES AWAY WHEN THE THE FAULTY MODULE IS UNPLUGGED BUT HAVE NOT HAD ANY LUCK WITH THAT,IT SEEMS AS IF THERE IS A MODULE THAT IS CAUSING THE INTERMITENT PROBLEM BUT I CAN'T SEEM TO PINPOINT WHICH MODULE.
Expert:  Amedee replied 5 years ago.
Ok... when this happens, do we have a 5 volt reference at the tps sensor with the key on?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
YES WE DO HAVE REF VOLTAGE (5V)WHEN PROBLEM OCCURS.
Expert:  Amedee replied 5 years ago.

Do you have a scanner? Can you read the data stream when this occurs?

 

I take it the engine still runs just fine when this happens?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
CORRECT THE ENGINE DOES RUN FINE AND I HAVE BEEN MONITORING THE DATA WITH A SCANNER (MODIUS)SOME MORE INFO REGUARDING WHEN IT ACTS UP,IF I JUST HAVE THE KEY IN THE ON POSITION AND NOT RUNNING YOU WILL SEE THE TEMP GAUGE GO BACK TO ENGINE TEMP THE HOT INDICATOR WILL ILLUMINATE.WHEN ACTING UP THIS THIS LIGHT DOES NOT PERFORM A BULB CHECK SO IT WILL NOT ILLUMIINATE.
Expert:  Amedee replied 5 years ago.
DOes this vehicle use UART serial data? WOuld you like some diagnostic flow charts for the UART system?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
YES ANYTHING THAT WOULD HELP TO DIAGNOSE THIS PROBLEM,EITHER E-MAIL OR YOU CAN FAX TO (XXX) XXX-XXXX
Expert:  Amedee replied 5 years ago.

TRY ONE OF THE FOLLOWING

  1. Check all DK GRN (835) wiring for an open or short to ground.
  2. Check all data line component connectors for proper terminal contact, beginning with suspect component.
  3. Check all data line components ground wiring for high resistance (caused by poor terminal contact, frayed wires, etc...).
  4. Check all data line components, beginning with suspect component

graphic

 

graphic

Expert:  Amedee replied 5 years ago.

Here is the complete wiring diagram for the UART system. Be sure that you have disconnected each module one at a time.

 

graphic

graphic

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I HAVE CHECK ALL MODULES INDIVUALY BY UNPLUGGING WITH NO CHANGE IN COMMUNICATION ALTHOUGH LOOKING AT THE DATA LINE DIAGRAM THERE IS 1 MODULE THAT I AM UNSURE OF IT IS A DIAGNOSTIC ENERGY MODULE OR (DERM)IT SEEMS TO BE IN THE LOOP OF MODULES CONNECTED TO DATA LINK CONNECTOR.DO YOU KNOW OF THIS MODULE AND IF SO WHERE IT IS LOCATED?
Expert:  Amedee replied 5 years ago.

graphicDESCRIPTION
The Diagnostic Energy Reserve Module (DERM) performs several system functions. These functions include energy reserve, malfunction detection, malfunction recording, driver notification and frontal crash recording.

OPERATION
The DERM is connected to the SIR wiring harness by a 24-way connector. This harness connector uses a shorting bar across certain terminals in the contact area. This shorting bar connects the AIR BAG warning lamp to ground when the DERM harness connector is disconnected. This will cause the AIR BAG warning lamp to come on steady whenever the ignition switch is at the Run, Bulb Test or Start positions with the DERM disconnected.

 

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I HAVE UNPLUGGED ALL MODULES IN DATA SERIES I HAVE CHECKED RESISTANCE IN ALL SERIAL WIRES IN AND OUT OF EVERY MODULE ALL READINGS ARE UNDER .05 OHMS OF RESISITANCECAN YOU GIVE ME SOME MORE FEEDBACK ON ANYTHING ELSE TO CHECK PROBLEM IS STILL APPARENT
Expert:  Amedee replied 5 years ago.

Sure!

 

The coolant temperature gage is also operated by two coils. Battery voltage is applied to both coils. One is grounded directly and the other is grounded through the Gages Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor. This has 55 ohms resistance at 127°C (260°F) and its resistance becomes greater at low temperatures. It is approximately 1400 ohms at 38°C (1 00°F) . This causes the current through the sensor and one coil to increase at the coolant temperature increases. This moves the pointer.

 

DO you know were the voltage on this UART line is supposed to be generated from?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I HAVE BEEN MONITORING VOLTAGE AT THE #9 PIN IN THE DIAG. CONNECTOR
IT IS AT 5 VOLTS WHEN PROBLEM IS HAPPENING WHEN THE PROBLEM IS NOT HAPPENING THE VOLTAGE IS MOVING FROM 2.5 VOLTS UP TO 4.8 VOLTS.THE VOLTAGE COMES FROM THE PCM CORRECT??
Expert:  Amedee replied 5 years ago.

Ok... good!

 

Each module has the potential to produce a 5 volt reference and pull it down to 0 volts. It is suppose to be a 0 to 5 volt square wave form.

 

Please do me a favor.... List every module you have disconnected on this circuit.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I DISCONNECTED THE AIR BAG MODULE UNDER PASS. SIDE SEAT,ABS/TRACTION MODULE,REMOTE ACC.(RAC)MODULE,HVAC PROGRAMMER,INSTRUMENT CLUSTER,PCM.
Expert:  Amedee replied 5 years ago.
WHat about the DERM module?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I THOUGHT THE DERM MODULE WAS THE AIR BAG MODULE??IF NOT WHERE IS IT LOCATED?
Expert:  Amedee replied 5 years ago.

YES! You are correct! Make sure you have dissconnected this module!

 

Floorpan, Under Driver's Seat, SDM Modulegraphic

Floorpan, Under Driver's Seat, SDM Module

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
WELL I PULLED OUT THE DRIVER SIDE SEAT AND NO MODULE FOUND I BELIEVE THAT THIS MODULE IS UNDER THE PASS.SIDE SEAT WHICH I HAVE ALREADY DISCONNECTED.THERE IS AN ERROR IN THE COMPONENET LOCATOR I CAME ACROSS THIS WITH ALL DATA WHEN I WAS REPLACING THE AIR BAG MODULE.THEY HAVE SO MANY DIFFERENT NAMES FOR THIS MODULE BOTXXXXX XXXXXNE IT IS THE AIR BAG MODULE!ANY OTHER IDEAS I WAS READING OVER ALL MY NOTES AND FOUND SOMETHING I DIDN'T CHECK THAT YOU HAD MENTIONED DARK GREEN WIRE (835)WHAT DOES THIS WIRE POWER AND WHERE SHOULD I LOOK FOR IT??
Expert:  Amedee replied 5 years ago.

WHat about the radio? Is it an after market radio? Have we tried to disconnect it and see if that helps?

 

WHat dark green wire are you talking about?

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ASE Master Tech advanced level specialist. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector