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Debra
Debra, Lawyer
Category: Canada Law
Satisfied Customers: 97977
Experience:  Lawyer
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My daughter, wife and myself hold PR cards with validity

Customer Question

My daughter, wife and myself hold PR cards with validity date till October 2016. Last year when we reached Canada, we were given departure orders since we did not complete the obligatory 730 days. We appealed. Then returned to Qatar where we are stationed now. My daughter has now got admission in Ryerson University in Canada. We want to come to Canada to take the admission. Will we be allowed to come to Canada, since our appeal hearing date has not come yet. Will we be able to come to Canada once the expiry date on the PR card is over, while the appeal decision is still awaited?
We would appreciate your kind response.
Many thanks!
Submitted: 8 months ago.
Category: Canada Law
Expert:  Debra replied 8 months ago.

Did they tell you that the departure order was stayed?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
The appeal was received
Still waiting for the hearing
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I am happy to Skype too. My Skype id is jjohn25257.
Expert:  Debra replied 8 months ago.

I am sorry but I cannot speak to you on the telephone. I know the site offers this service but the site is based in the US. In Canada the rules of my law society prohibit me from speaking to you on the telephone as you are not my client.

I can only speak to you by posting up and back over this site.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
We have a PR which expires soon, but we haven't kept the obligatory 730 days, as we were given the departure orders last year July(2015) we appealed immediately and are still waiting for the date of hearing. we are told the backlog is so much that the likely date will be in 2018. Now our daughter has obtained admission into university for the fall of 2016. We were told that as long as the PR is valid and the appeal is ongoing, we can travel into Canada and our daughter can start her studies. Kindly advise.
Expert:  Debra replied 8 months ago.

The departure order would be stayed (put on hold) until after the appeal is heard.

For this reason there was no requirement that you leave Canada and if the officer at the border understands this you should not have any problem returning to Canada so that your daughter can attend university.

But when you are returning to Canada be sure that you have all the documentation, especially about your appeal so that the officer will understand that you have a legal right to return. You should also have proof that your daughter will be attending university such as her offer of enrolment or proof of payment if you have already paid the school.

Does that help?

Please understand that I am happy to answer all your follow-up questions so if you have any go ahead and let me know what they are.

If you feel we are done I hope that I have provided you with a 5-star rating but if you feel that I have not then please do not hesitate to let me know how I can better help you.

Finally, you should know that I am still here for you even after you rate me if you think of follow-up questions later on.

Thanks

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for the reply, it was very helpful. we will make sure we have all the documents. I have a couple of questions hope you will be able to help. 1) since the PR appeal is only in 2018 can we apply for a temporary PR? and also if the principal applicant (father) relinquish our PR because of all thats happening and the complications, will our 17 year old daughter's PR card and appeal also be automatically removed?? Looking forward to your answer. Thanks and regards.
Expert:  Debra replied 8 months ago.

There is no such thing as a temporary PR. Your point is that you are still a PR as the decision was in error. The 17 year old PR card and appeal will not be removed if the father gives up his appeal.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Thank you very much, that's good news. we are hoping to enroll our daughter to University in August. Our PR expires in October. Our daughter will be in Canada studying and we will be leaving Canada. What would be the right way to visit her since our appeal hearing is set for 2018 and having an expired PR?? Thanks and regards.
Expert:  Debra replied 8 months ago.

You will be in the same position then as now.

If you are admitted because they are considering your PR as still in effect you can come and go at will.

It would be the same way that she is planning to enter in August.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Hello, thanks for the above. we have a lawyer who's looking after the appeal, they are giving almost diametrically opposite answers, according to them our daughter's PR will be cancelled along with ours if we relinquish ours as we applied as a family
and also that once your PR card is expired, even if you have an appeal in process, you cannot enter Canada.Now we are not sure which advice to take and follow!! Please let us know if there is any way we can convince them of what you have told us. Thanks and regards.
Expert:  Debra replied 8 months ago.

It is not about convincing the lawyers. It is about what the officers at the border will do.

This is a very unusual situation as no one in your position leaves Canada until the appeal process has finished because appealing stayed the removal order.

It may be that your lawyer has seen cases like this.

The officers at the border are getting stricter and stricter all the time. And it very often feels that they believe it is their job to keep everyone out of Canada.

I am not your lawyer and if you have a lawyer you trust you should rely on that lawyer. Your lawyer knows you and the facts and likely sees this all the time.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your kind reply. The issue was not about convincing the lawyers at all. The very reason why we felt the need for seeking second opinion is that the picture our lawyer painted was quite different from what we had heard from others from online forums etc. We were not in a position to stay in Canada after the departure order was issued, and appealed, because, in the face of an uncertain outcome of the appeal, it would be disastrous for us to resign our jobs (both of us are doctors practising in the middle east), and move to Canada with a probable prospect later being asked to leave. Our primary desire at the moment is to see our daughter to be able to study in Canada as a PR and in future get Canadian citizenship.
We were told that once she enters Canada she cannot come out for about two years. That is quite acceptable for us as long as we can visit her, even at short notice, in case of an urgent situation. We, the parents are willing to reliquish our PR provided, we can get visas to visit her. But our lawyer informed us that if i as the principal applicant relinquishes the PR appeal, my daughter's chance of remaining a PR would be affected. Your answer to the contrary had given us some hope.
The reason for our distress was that, as long as the appeal is in process, after date on our PR card expires, we will neither be able to renew it or apply for visa. We were told that we may be able to obtain a travel document, to visit, that can happen only once after the PR card expires, and if utilized before the hearing we will not be able to appear for the hearing.
Kindly understand that we are not trying to work lawyers against one another, but trying to get some information that is reliable and advise to move forward. We would be willing to change the present lawyer if need be, since we do not seem to get appropriate help or advise.
Many thanks for your kind inputs.
Expert:  Debra replied 8 months ago.

I understand.

The reason why you are being told that your daughter cannot come out if she enters Canada is because there is a fear that she will not be allowed to reenter.

There is no clear answer here and it may be that you can ask your own lawyer to make an inquiry of Canada immigration directly see what opinion they would provide.

The other issue I just thought of is that it may be difficult for your daughter to enrol as a permanent resident and you may be stuck with paying international student fees because she won't have card to prove that she is a permanent resident.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
the fees is a concern; but a secondary one. The main thing is, if we cancel our (parents' PR, whether her PR also will be revoked). We have been advised by some, (not lawyers), that after intial issue of PR, each person is considered as separate individual and treated as such. You too said essentially so. The confusion is that our lawyer thought differently.
Expert:  Debra replied 8 months ago.

I believe you are treated separately and that makes sense because if one spouse leaves the country and the other remains (just by way of example) then the spouse that remains does not lose their PR status.

But there is now the complication that your child is a minor, that you appealed as a family and that you then left the country.

So I cannot say with any real certainty what would happen.

I wish I could.

Expert:  Debra replied 8 months ago.

Is there anything more you want to discuss?

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