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Ulysses101
Ulysses101, Lawyer
Category: Canada Law
Satisfied Customers: 3442
Experience:  11 years experience in Canada family law, plus criminal, civil, and employment
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A few years ago, i got tricked into lending a friend some

Customer Question

Hi there, a few years ago, i got tricked into lending a friend some money and they promised me they would pay me back, end up i did a cash advanced from my credit card and lent them the money. They did not pay me back and i repaid all that after 1.5 years with lots of interest(from credit card) of approx $12000. They even allow me to sign the power of attourney of their house but it was only valid for two weeks, and after that i couldn't reach that person. I tried to find a debt collector company, but failed to get the money back. I don't know if I can get the money back. I have a note they wrote to me that I lend them the money and they signed it saying they will repay me. Please tell me what I can do.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Canada Law
Expert:  Ulysses101 replied 1 year ago.

Hello, thank you for the question.

When was that note signed that acknowledges the debt?

What is the amount owed, and how much interest did you pay before the debt was retired?

Do you know what sort of contact the collection company had with them? Any emails or letters exchanged?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
it was approx $16000 i took out, and after interest was paid, the total was approx 23000 with interest...
it was signed in 2010-2011. The collection company hired someone to search for them, and found where they lived in. Served her once with a letter and i went to court but the defendant did not show up. No emails or letters exchanged. I only have the letter from the defendant, whom i lent the money to, signed it.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
the collection company did skip tracing, and i paid for them to do so. Actually, i gave the defendant 16990, and with the interest, it should be approx $19861.93(the collection company calc for me) - but that was for the time until i paid off, approx a year(from a credit card cash advanced).
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
the collection company helped me file a notice of claim(send her a copy of default order to her) and served her, once, but she did not respond.
Expert:  Ulysses101 replied 1 year ago.

OK, so a Statement of Claim was filed for you. If she was properly served and didn't respond, did you not get judgement against her?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
but after the first time it was served, the "collection company" states that we need to serve it the second time and that company had trouble trying to give the letter to the defendant anonymously. One day, the debt collector company just told me they will give up on this case since it took them so long and they couldn't get anything out of it. Since then, i just didn't know what else i could do and i just stopped there. Recently a friend told me it's very likely i can get the money back but i don't know the steps. Please help!
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
i decided to pick it up again because it is a lot of money but i don't know where to start. I don't have a lot of money as I am still a student and working 2 part time jobs just to maintain my living.
Expert:  Ulysses101 replied 1 year ago.

OK, when did the agency first serve the defendant? Are we talking about the letter or about a Statement of Claim from court? I'm not sure which you mean.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The default order was sent to the defendant on March 8, 2012, as per the debt collector agency emailed me and told me.
Expert:  Ulysses101 replied 1 year ago.

Maybe it's that you're not fully understanding what happened or what I'm asking.

Did you get default judgement from the court? Do you have a copy?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
in sept 2011, she was summoned to attend a mediation at the court house, where i was to sit down to discuss the debt with master/judge.
Expert:  Ulysses101 replied 1 year ago.

I understand. Did you get an order for judgement? Was she ordered to pay you? Do you have a copy of the order?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
i remember the judged approved the amount i was asking for, and on top of that i was approved for more than i asked. can i get the info back? It's been awhile, but i didn't know what i should do next after the collection company stopped.
Expert:  Ulysses101 replied 1 year ago.

Let me know if you have a copy of the order handy. Take your time.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
i don't have that order, i believe the collection agency might have??? they have all the documents but i didn't ask them for it back. can i get it from the court? Sigh, that company just stopped there and said they could not continue on this case anymore. I don't have anything now.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
i remember the court approved the defendant to pay me, but i didnt know what the process was and the defendant didn't go to court. So I just waited and waited for a letter or something.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
all i have with me are the evidence that the defendant promised to pay back
Expert:  Ulysses101 replied 1 year ago.

I see. The first thing we need to have is a copy of the order. You can call the agency and ask to send it back, but who knows how long that will take. If you are close to the court, go there and pull your file and get a notarized copy of the order. It'll help if you know your file number, but if you don't they can find it searching your name as the plaintiff. Are you close enough to get it soon?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
actually the court hearing was on april 4th, 2012.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
i will call today around noon, to tha company and see if i can get a copy of the order(is it the default order i'm asking for)? I can go to the court and pull the file, but how do i do that and where at the court can i get it? after today, can i still contact you? i really don't mind paying for this if i can get my money back.......
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
i have to go back to the court that i attended to get that file number, right?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
the hearing is for a judge to determine the amount the claimant is entitled to (if any) for the interest charge and the skiptracing charge in this case.
Jess will not be at this hearing because she will not be notified of it because she did not file a reply to the notice of claim."
this is what i got from my email long time ago regarding the trial from the colelction agency
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
do you think i can continue this case again after a few years....?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
i can get it today after work, i'm off at 4pm in burnaby....i have to call them to see when they are closed.
Expert:  Ulysses101 replied 1 year ago.

It's good that the order has been made. If it hadn't yet, you would likely be out of time to take it to court due to limitation periods. But orders don't expire once made, so if when you get the order that's the first step. Look at it closely, make sure you know what it says, and calculate the amount now due given the passage of time and the interest rate specified in the order.

If you go to court for the order, take it to the Registrar's or Sheriff's desk to ask about enforcement measures. Enforcing the order is a separate matter.

There are several options for enforcement, and the more you know about the defendant the better, including:

Full Legal Name

Birthdate

Social Insurance Number

Current address

Current employer

Real estate or other property they own

Which bank they use, and which branch

The more you know the better. You should be able to find out a surprising amount by internet searching. People put a lot of information on social media, and even if they don't their friends and co-workers often do. Search the name and other information you know currently, including last known address. By following links and using image searching you'll get a lot. If you're not intuitively good at this, get someone who is net savvy to do it for you. It's public information. If necessary, get a lawyers office to do a PPSA search for property owned, a request to the Ministry of Transportation for current driver's license address, and other small such tricks to get info. That shouldn't cost much and will be valuable.

When you know as much as you can without hiring a private investigator, go back to the court and fill out the forms for enforcement. Depending on how much you know about her, you can get a writ for search and seizure of property, a lien on vehicles or real estate owned, garnish bank accounts or employment earnings, and subpoena them for an examination under oath about their assets and finances.

This could take some time and effort, but unless she has left the country and has no assets, or claims bankruptcy, you'll get your money eventually. If she's already gone bankrupt then it doesn't apply to you unless you were served those documents informing you of such.

Is there anything else to discuss about this? If so then please reply. If I've answered you fully then please rate the service positively. The thread will stay open for a while so you can follow up with me if you like. If it's on the same thread you won't be charged anything further.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I just talked ot the collection company and they are looking for the file number. They told me they requested the court to send me a copy when i requested one but they had to charge a postage fee and then the company denied it. So therefore I didn't get anything at all. They told me to go to the court and get it myself. I think i have all the information , including where the defendant works(they own a printing company and i have that address). I even have her banking information because I actually didn't give her cash, i transferred the amount into her TD bank(unless she changed banks).
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
your advice right now, is I should go back to that courthouse, obtain the file number, and fill out the enforcement form and request for the options you provided(garnishing, liens, etc). But why do i need to obtain the PSSA search? Is it necessary? If so, then i will get it done asap (do i just run into any lawyer firm and request for it and they can get it for me no problem?). what other information do i need to obtain? so after i fill in the enforcement form, what should i do next after I submit it(whom do i submit it to?)
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
they got my file number, it's(###) ###-####
can you help me please....?
Expert:  Ulysses101 replied 1 year ago.

Wow, you have a lot more information than I was anticipating. When the agency couldn't get far, I assumed that she was in hiding or something. That's good, you should still do some investigating online for further or updated details.

If you have the court file number, take it and the information you have about her to court. Get a copy of the order and then go to the registrar's or sheriff's to ask about enforcement. If you're nice and friendly and they aren't busy, they'll give you the paperwork for various enforcement options, and if there's anyone on the premises to help you fill it out then that's great.

A PPSA search isn't necessary, but it would give you information about assets which in the defendant's name upon which you could file a lien. Any lawyer's office, or good paralegal, can do this for you for not much money. Depending on how good you are with forms and how valuable your time is, you can do much of this yourself.

There are a number of forms, each for different enforcement mechanisms. It's beyond my purview to go over each with you here and now. As I recommended, spend some time online to find out as much as you can about her, and get a copy of the court order, then either get a paralegal or enforcement agency to pursue her for a fee, or go to court to get it started yourself.

Assuming that this was a Small Claims Action, here's some information on enforcement options:

http://www.smallclaimsbc.ca/court-decisions/collecting-on-judgment

http://www.ag.gov.bc.ca/courts/small_claims/info/guides/getting_results.htm

Are you clear now on your next steps?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Very clear! Last thing, once i decided on which enforcement mechanism, i fill that form and submit it. How do I get it started myself and bring it to court myself? Who do I tell that I want to pursue this myself without a lawyer?Do i need the defendant's information in order to garnish their wage(and i believe she is self-employed because she owns her own printing business). Can you advise if this is something simple and I should do this myself or should I find a lawyer or paralegal(will any paralegal work ?). Since the order is defaulted, this means that the judge has already approved my case and all i need is to enforce it in order to get the money, right? Do i have to gather the defendant's assets in order to get money from her or garnish her wages, or put a lien on her property (for example do i need to find out exactly where she is living and provide the address)?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The agency said i was micromanaging(i was just asking how the case was, etc), so she said she didn't feel comfortable working with me. Anyways, i should go get the default order, find more information about which enforcement works better for me in this case, and then go to the registrar and submit the case with the default order plus the enforcement form, get the PSSA information(do i have to tell them what information to get specifically or will they already know what they will give me?), and then go to court and continue on. Is this my process?
Expert:  Ulysses101 replied 1 year ago.

Most enforcement mechanisms won't require more court. For example, once you have your order and you know where she banks, you fill out the forms for an account garnishment. Maybe you take them to the bank, maybe the sheriff sends it directly. When money is garnished and collected to the court, they deposit it to your account. So you'll need some info yourself on how you want the money to get to you.

Yes, you have the order already. You don't need to prove the debt, and it doesn't matter if it was a default order.

The more information the better. You will need proof of her owning a specific piece of real estate before you can put a lien on it, for example. You'll need the exact address and title information from the land registry office before the court will order a lien on it, for example.

I can appreciate why they said you were "micromanaging". No offense, but your asking a lot of the same or similar questions again. Take the time to understand the process in broad strokes before you start worrying about the little details. If you do this yourself, you're going to learn as you go. If you hire a paralegal, make sure that they have experience in enforcement procedures, and you know what you'll be billed for and that you're okay with it.

There are a lot of options and I can't tell you exactly how to do each. You don't even have your court order yet. Get the order, make some online poking around for more information, call some paralegals to ask if they can help you with this and what it will cost, read through those links I sent, and decide how to proceed from there. I can't tell you how at this point in time.

Expert:  Ulysses101 replied 1 year ago.

Anything else to discuss?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
i'm just wondering if i really should pay someone to go with me to trial(a lawyer or paralegal). If it's not something difficult, do you think I can manage it myself? Since I don't have to go to court , why do i need a paralegal or lawyer? SOrry, i know i'm asking a lot of questions. just that i want to know exactly what i need to do and so i don't have to come back and ask again.
Expert:  Ulysses101 replied 1 year ago.

There won't be a trial. You already have judgement in your favour.

If you don't want to do the forms and paperwork and investigations yourself then you could get a lawyer or paralegal to do it. Or try it yourself until you're lost, frustrated, or making a mess of it.

Again, you're trying to get your head around the whole thing all at once and all the various options, and it seems overwhelming. Just know what to do next and we've discussed that.

Anything else specifically?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
nono, thats it...Thank you again..
Expert:  Ulysses101 replied 1 year ago.

You're very welcome. My I ask for a positive service rating, please?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
do i have to pay the $69 even if i think you have great services ,but still have remaining parts remaining that i have to figure out slowly?
Expert:  Ulysses101 replied 1 year ago.

You don't have to rate the service. If you do, then the deposit you've put to the site gets split between the site and myself. That's how the site makes money, and I make a bit too while doing office work or in my spare time.

The site runs on the honour system. You can ask for your deposit back. However, I've spent a lot of time on your matter today and I'd appreciate a few bucks for my expertise and guidance. You'd have paid a lot more than this for a similar consult with a lawyer in person.

So I'd appreciate a rating. If you want to come back later and ask some specific follow up questions on this same thread, I'll be here.

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