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Ulysses101
Ulysses101, Lawyer
Category: Canada Law
Satisfied Customers: 2438
Experience:  11 years experience in Canada family law, plus criminal, civil, and employment
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I am a first time Grandma, yay ! My son and girlfriend do

Resolved Question:

I am a first time Grandma, yay ! My son and girlfriend do not live together and had a son. Live in Ontario. If and when she asks for child support, and the judge awards an amount, QUESTION: does the amount owed begin with the birth of the baby ie retroactive or does it begin from the date of the judges decision.
Thank you.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Canada Law
Expert:  Ulysses101 replied 1 year ago.
Hello Grandma. Congratulations!

Has the mother asked for support yet?

How old is the child now?

What does your son earn, approximately?

Do you know if the mother is on social assistance of some kind?

Ulysses
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thanks !


Baby is 3 weeks young.


Mom not yet asked.


Son approx 46,000.00


Mom on Ontario works, from what I have ascertained, she receives 1000.00 per month for both her and the baby, 500 of that goes direct to her mom for rent.

Expert:  Ulysses101 replied 1 year ago.
You say that they don't live together. Are they going to any time soon?

How well do they get along right now?

Is he giving her any cash now for help/support?

(I'm off to church, but will be back by noon to finish up with you)

Ulysses
Customer: replied 1 year ago.


No, not going to live together-she moved out of his home 4 days prior to birth on June 11th, and moved in with her mother. He is 32, she is 24. Note she is on methadone and the babe thus far is healthy. She takes daily dose of methadone and as I can see, she is functioning well and is attentive to babes needs. Both the community health nurse and CAS visit every week-CAS because of the meth issue. They are civil to one another. The only tangible support he has given is 30.00 formula that she called and asked him for this week. Son saw and held babe first time Friday-17 days old when he delivered the formula- the Moms' Mom is very strict as far as caring for the babe ie $$-you got yourself into this mess, you can get yourself out of it. I have been over the top supportive in all aspects-rides to meth clinic, drs appointments as well as supplies and the odd 20-40.00. My side of the family also held a baby shower. Questio: all these bits of cash and supplies, both on my and my sons' part-do they count as "support" or is it only CASH that counts. Son questioning if baby is his and I'm guessing only way to determine is paternity test and also guessing that she would have to pay for test because if he is to pay support, then it's up to her prove the babe is his.

Expert:  Ulysses101 replied 1 year ago.
OK, you've raised several issues here and I'll address them. This will be long, so please take some time to digest it and reply if you have questions about any of it.

Firstly, it's good that you're involved and supportive. But this paternity issue has to be resolved. If your son acts like a father for a year or two and then asks for a paternity test it'll look fishy. And by then he'll firmly be "in the place of a parent" and be responsible for child support anyway. Father should think hard about whether he has good reason to believe that he might not be the father. He should then talk to mother about it. She'll be offended and upset, but this issue has to be decided.

One option is to wait until father has the baby away from mom. Then father takes the baby for a DNA test. You can buy home kits that don't cost much, it's done on a mouth swab so there's no needles or anything. If that "unofficial" test shows that he's not the dad then it's time to talk to mom and get a better one done.

Maybe your son can deflect some of the "blame" on wanting the test onto you, he'd tell mother that you're insisting on it and will pay for it. Yes, if you and your son want the test then you should pay for it. If it turns out that he's not the father, then that will be the best money you ever spent. Your son will have no ongoing responsibility for this child. The mother sounds like a piece of work so your son doesn't need to get dragged into her drama if he doesn't have to and pay for a child that's not his as well.

You don't want to simply ignore mother and child and say "prove it" because Ontario Works will force her to take father to court for a child support order so that Ontario Works can give her less money. That's how it works; the OW recipient's monthly money is reduced dollar for dollar by the child support amount.

Giving her a bit of cash and supplies here and there is "support in kind" and doesn't count as child support. If father gives mother cash regularly and she doesn't report it to OW, then that's fraud. Then if OW makes her take dad to court she'll deny that she ever got any cash, because if she does admit it she'll have to pay it back to OW and could be charged with welfare fraud. So she'll say she never got any money from dad and then dad might have to pay it again. I see it happen all the time.

You also need to get this paternity issue resolved in case mom's addictions get the better of her. Father wants to be in a position to make a claim that the child should be placed with him (or you) if mom drops the ball. He won't have much of a claim if he's not involved with the child.

It's good to be supportive and helpful. But if you get into the routine of doing so without being sure about paternity, you'll wind up resenting the situation and your son for getting involved with the mother. And if the routine continues, the court could order your son to pay support even if he's not the father.

I'm sorry if this sounds all doom and gloom. As I lawyer, I say that my job is to point out your worst case scenarios and how to avoid them.

Does this help? If you have questions then please reply before rating. If you're satisfied that I've answered you then please give a positive rating so that I get credit for having assisted you.

Good luck
Ulysses
Ulysses101, Lawyer
Category: Canada Law
Satisfied Customers: 2438
Experience: 11 years experience in Canada family law, plus criminal, civil, and employment
Ulysses101 and 3 other Canada Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Is it a given that OW will ask mom to take my son to court so that ow can reduce their payments to the mom. And also, if an award is given to the Mom in favor of receiving child support, are the payments retroactive to the date of babes' birth ?

Expert:  Ulysses101 replied 1 year ago.
They could be if she claims retroactive support to the month of the child's birth.

So monies and supplies that you and he are giving to the mother, she'll claim she either didn't get or don't count as child support.

If you're going to continue to give her money, at least keep track of it. Put it into her account directly so you have proof of it, that's the best way. But this paternity issue has to be addressed sooner or later, and much better if sooner.

Ulysses
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Will do. Are all kits the same or is one product better than the other.


You've been a gem.

Expert:  Ulysses101 replied 1 year ago.
I'm glad to have helped, and thank you for the rating.

I can't recommend any kit over any other. None of them are admissible in court, but doing one privately will go a long way to put your mind at ease one way or the other. If you arrange to go to a lab for it, then it's admissible in court but will cost much more.

Ulysses
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

So now the mother is asking for spousal support. She and my son lived together in his home from Sept 2012 until May 2013.


What say the law about this.

Expert:  Ulysses101 replied 1 year ago.
She can apply, but it's highly unlikely she'll get anything for that short period.

Of course, asking and getting are different things. To get spousal support for this short of a period she'd have to prove that she quit a good job to move in with him and she can't get the job back.

Generally speaking, the courts don't take a spousal support application seriously when the relationship was 2 years or less. Even then the award would be small.

If you think you're going to have more family law questions as all of this unfolds you should consider a subscription so that you can ask multiple questions for a single monthly fee. That's a good value.

Ulysses

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