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I have a runaway 16 year old who refused to go to school or

 
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  • Answered by:Copperlaw
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Customer Question

I have a runaway 16 year old who refused to go to school or work as an alternative, who is living with a non related welfare mother and her son, my Mother who is also suing me on a separate Civil unrelated matter has now had me served for custody of my son. I was served papers today for a mandatory info session and later court date. Looking for advice around a few family law questions as in what rights do 16 year olds have who do not want to work or go to school. His father pays support to me

 

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Province/Territory relating to question: Ontario

Already Tried:
Just served this evening....no legal advice avail on a Friday or over weekend so have tried nothing else.

Submitted: 328 days and 22 hours ago.
Category: Canada Law
Value: CA$49
Status: CLOSED

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Expert:  Copperlaw replied328 days and 22 hours ago.


Copperlaw : Hi there.
Copperlaw : I am sorry that you are going through this
Copperlaw : Firstly, the MIP date is a mandatory information session only, where they tell you what o expect in the process, so don't sweat over that.
Copperlaw : 16 and 17 year old youths can leave the home and make their own decisions, even apply for and receive social assistance and aid with housing
Customer :

I knew they could but heard they had to be in school or working.

Customer :

He dropped out of school 2 months ago.

Copperlaw : I expect that since the 16 year old left, dad may seek to terminate support to you
Customer :

I'm trying to do a tough love thing. He called on the weekend and asked for food money for the home he's living in, I told him he could come home to eat anytime he wanted and I wouldn't pay for food for some strangers home who's on welfare.

Copperlaw : The courts would like them to be, however there are so many who simply are not, and are supported by the government
Customer :

His Dad and I are on good terms. His Dad owes me money so have agreed that while my son isn't living here the money can go towards money he owes me for a plane ticket I bought for him a few years ago to come see his kid.

Copperlaw : Good for you. Tough to do I bet, but good for you. Don't ever give him money. If he says he needs some food and you want to help, buy him some groceries
Copperlaw : The bare essentials
Copperlaw : Glad you have that sorted out with his dad
Customer :

His Dad has never had legal custody but then again neither have I technically other than he's never lived with anyone but me.

Copperlaw : So your mom wants custody of your son? The 16 year old?
Customer :

We have an Alberta court document that states his child support details. He's never defaulted.

Customer :

But he gives me a year in advance cheques for each month.

Copperlaw : Good. So let's look at the other issues
Copperlaw : Does your son want to go with your mom?
Customer :

I don't believe so, he would not be near his friends which is all he wants to do right now. He visits her in small doses and uses her for money and things.

Customer :

I would say to go with him not wanting to live with her.

Customer :

I realize he could be emancipated if he so chose but then would that mean his Dad nor I are no longer responsible for him? Do either of us have the choice to emancipate him from us as he won't live by simple rules in the home such as going to school or working if he can't go to school.

Customer :

He doesn't want to live with his Dad either.

Copperlaw : If mom got custody, she could try to get support out of you and dad, however I don't expect that end result is likely with him being 16 and her case likely won't get far
Copperlaw : You certainly have a strong argument against any support, and he likely would go with her anyhow, so her application will likely fail
Copperlaw : Sorry, likely WOULDN'T go with her
Customer :

That is a relief, she has been on mental disability for 15+ years and is not right with the world. She's an alcoholic. I would be okay with a court appointed guardian taking in money and dolling it out to him if he's working or actively seeking or preferably in school

Copperlaw : You should review her affidavit and what she's seeking in her Application and respond to everything in your own Answer and affidavit. Also asking for costs against her
Copperlaw : The courts likely won't make you guys pay him money just to sit around being a bum at 16
Customer :

It's not even an affidavit, it's a "fast track" court date with her name on the court papers asking for custody.

Copperlaw : Have you ever used the Law Society Referral Service for a free consultation with a local lawyer?
Copperlaw : Sounds like a frivolous application.
Customer :

I called them for a referral but never used it as I found a lawyer on my own it was for the civil case she has against me.

Copperlaw : You could file a motion seeking to have it dismissed with costs to you due to lack of merit
Copperlaw : Well, you're entitled to a free 1/2 hour face to face consult. I can give you the number if you'd like, so they can look at her paperwork and guide you accordinly
Customer :

She even included a police check for her that lists the items on it from 2010 to present which include criminal harassment (not charged just warned) and a break and enter (not charged too). She replies to them on a separate document.

Customer :

I think i need a family lawyer for all this new stuff, I can barely pay the other lawyer I have as it is, civil lawyers make a grip of money. :)

Customer :

I went into the wrong field I think.

Copperlaw : Sounds like she's just trying to make you look bad for the purposes of er civil case
Copperlaw : Yes, unless it's a contingency case, civil litigation is costly
Copperlaw : Haha. You should have been a lawyer :)
Customer :

sure as heck is but she has no evidence for that one, I on the other hand have a superabundance. her affidavit of documents literally has nothing on it.

Customer :

I hope that family law in Ontario is fair and decent for my son's sake

Customer :

that is the botXXX XXne here. I want him in school or working and being productive. She wants to take him on trips and things.

Copperlaw : The Law Society Referral Service (LSRS), known for the past 40 years as the Lawyer Referral Service (LRS), has been filling an important community need by connecting lawyers and people looking for assistance with a legal matter.Now, in response to growing public demand, the Law Society is expanding its referral service to include paralegals as well as lawyers.When you call the LSRS, we will provide you with the name of a lawyer or licensed paralegal who will provide a free consultation of up to 30 minutes to help you determine your rights and options.If you need a licensed paralegal or a lawyer – for anything from a traffic ticket to buying your first home – but don’t know where to find one, the Law Society Referral Service (LSRS) can help.The new LSRS will also include number of service enhancements that ensure members of the public will have even greater access to legal service providers.And with the Internet increasingly playing a role in making justice more widely accessible, we are pleased to introduce a feature on our website that makes it possible for more people to obtain referrals online.The new LSRS is launching May 1, 2012. In the meantime, our LRS service will continue to operate as usual.You can access the service by calling 1-800-268-8326 or XXX-XXX-XXXX (within the GTA) or by accessing our on-line request form by clicking the link:
Copperlaw : The courts will want him doing something just like you
Copperlaw : They won't reward him for sitting around...
Customer :

I'm concerned about who manages his money, she will spend it on liquor and vacations, he will spend it on pot and parties.

Customer :

Can I request if they don't make me the guardian of him anymore that they appoint someone other than his Grandmother? Do I have any choice in this matter?

Copperlaw : Right. That's why I suggest if he wants to live on his own, he needs to go to school or work, and ONLY then will you help, by providing some groceries, and maybe paying some bills directly
Copperlaw : So no cash goes in is pocket
Copperlaw : If he wants spending money, he gets a job
Copperlaw : Lots of lawns need mowing
Customer :

Will a judge even hear such a thing?

Copperlaw : You are his mom. Of course you have a voice in tjis
Customer :

He was supposed to mow lawns here in the neighbourhood this summer. I even offered to loan him my mower until he could buy his own.

Customer :

Do judges typically take a mother's voice over a grandmothers?

Copperlaw : I expect the courts will see you have his best interests in mind, and he's thinking like a child
Customer :

I mean I look kind bad for not giving him money for food, of course I feel bad but I'm trying the tough love thing.

Copperlaw : Depends on the credibility of each soure
Copperlaw : Source
Customer :

I told him to come home to eat anytime he wants.

Copperlaw : But given what you said about her, they'd likely take er with a grain of salt
Copperlaw : Goid for you
Copperlaw : Sorry, crazy fingers tonight
Customer :

Will I even have an opportunity to provide the text messages and facebook messages she sent him and I over the years?

Copperlaw : Stick to your guns
Copperlaw : He'll see it's not so easy out there
Customer :

some of which are damning for her...her telling him she drank so much she missed her flight to the Dominican etc.

Copperlaw : You can include those messages in your affidavit
Customer :

It's going to get to that point where I have to file affidavits for this family thing?

Customer :

So there's probably no way to represent myself I need a lawyer right?

Copperlaw : You can likely represent yourself. You seem a little familiar with the process, and have all the facts
Customer :

According to this document he is living with this welfare mother for 4 days a week and with my mother for 3 days a week. She didn't even get his birthdate correct on the forms for crying out loud.

Copperlaw : You'll have to submit a response to the papers she served and filed
Customer :

How does one file affidavits etc. on their own without knowing the process thoroughly.

Copperlaw : There are very helpful guides online, and the family court staff are helpful, also your local courthouse will likely have a FLIC Family Law Information Center to help out
Copperlaw : Hang on, I'll get you some info
Copperlaw : Here is the government guide to family court process http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/family/guides/fc/
Copperlaw : Your requirements will Depend upon what Forms she served you,
Customer :

She's looking for $300 a month from each of us, plus a $100,000 life insurance policy and him being on all medical dental etc.

Copperlaw : That's just ridiculous. She is quite obviously just out for the money.
Customer :

If you were my lawyer I would say I am paying you to say that/

Copperlaw : It just seems so clear
Customer :

:)

Copperlaw : He's 16 and wants o live on his own with no rules
Copperlaw : She's crazy, $300 a month from both
Customer :

Exactly. I hope the courts see that too.

Customer :

Yes from both of us.

Copperlaw : And a 100k policy
Customer :

Yes.

Customer :

And medical/dental etc.

Copperlaw : Even if you paid support till he's thirty, it's not worth 100 k
Copperlaw : Oh she out of her mind
Copperlaw : Any judge should see that
Customer :

But its a policy in case he dies not if he lives I think....I don't understand what the policy is for she called it a life insurance policy

Copperlaw : ask your son directly. Want to go live with grandma?
Customer :

He won't answer my calls now

Copperlaw : The only thing they'd order a policy for is if the support payor dies, so support continues
Copperlaw : If he doesn't go to school, his support ends at 18 anyhow
Customer :

How do I prove he's not going to school?

Customer :

If she has custody?

Copperlaw : So in less than 2 years.
Copperlaw : You have, and would always have, access to his school records
Customer :

Unless he goes on to college and then she's asking for money until he's done that too

Copperlaw : Only if she got custody. From what you say, it sounds like that would never happen
Copperlaw : And he can't go to college when he won't go to school at 16
Customer :

true but maybe this will get him back into school.

Customer :

that is what I really want

Customer :

Can the courts force him to move with me or his Dad?

Customer :

His Dad would take him in for sure.

Copperlaw : At 16, the courts are not likely to order him to a home. They can specify who the custodial parent is, but at 16, he'll likely go where he pleases
Copperlaw : Only if he were charged criminally, could the courts bind him under an order (recognizance) to reside somewhere
Customer :

that's good to know

Customer :

now to fight for custody

Customer :

I have evidence to say she's not the right one for the job

Customer :

and witnesses

Copperlaw : Good. Then you need affidavits from this people also
Customer :

Yup I definitely need a lawyer...are family lawyers expensive?

Copperlaw : They can be
Copperlaw : Do you qualify for lega
Copperlaw : Legal aid
Customer :

he's my kid, he's worth it in the end. I def don't qualify for legal aid, the cut off for a single person with a child is 23k...I work for a living at the University in the medical school as a coordinator

Copperlaw : Since this involves custody, if your income fits their criteria, you may get legal aid
Copperlaw : Ah. Gotcha
Copperlaw : Yes, and he'll owe you big time when he finally grows up
Copperlaw : Anyhow, the initial consult is certainly free
Customer :

I don't want pay back I just want him to be productive, these are all things I need a judge to hear

Customer :

Thank you for your advice it was helpful with the current issues, I think I'll obtain legal representation to protect the rights of my son

Copperlaw : Oh I know. You want what's best. The sacrifices we make for our kids
Copperlaw : You are so very welcome
Customer :

Where do you practice?

Customer :

province.

Copperlaw : If ou are satisfied for now, please click "Accept" so that I may e credited for my ime
Copperlaw : Time
Copperlaw : Ontario
Customer :

Good stuff. I will click. Good night.

Copperlaw : You can return to this question at any time if you need further clarification
Copperlaw : Goodnight
Copperlaw : Good luck

Expert TypeLawyer
Category: Canada Law
Pos. Feedback: 97.8 %
Accepts: 955
Answered: 6/23/2012

Experience: Retired cop. Now a Lawyer. Drug expert, breath tech, negotiator, traffic specialist. Criminal, Family, Civil and more.

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