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Jerry Newton
Jerry Newton, Cadillac Technician
Category: Cadillac
Satisfied Customers: 4413
Experience:  ASE Master Technician, L1, Master GM Technician. Over 20 years of bumper to bumper GM experience.
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2005 Cadillac cts: I have a 05 cts and am having trouble getting

Customer Question

I have a 05 cts and am having trouble getting this pk3 system to work. Note* this is an 05 cadi that was a repo and the ecu and pcm had prior problems. The motor had lost compression so I got a whole wrecked 04 Cadillac that started fine every time and shifted fine so on so fourth in all operating order I don't know much about the security of these cars but I'm learning. So the way it's sittig now is I have the 05 ignition, bin cut key, ecm. And the 04 engine and tranny. I try the relearn process and the security telltale never goes off after the 10 min process. I took this car to the dealer ship and it was disaster they said don't know any thing so I'm stuck on my own with this and I have money invested as I only bought this as a repo and got a engine please help.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Cadillac
Expert:  Jerry Newton replied 1 year ago.
You mention the ten minute process... do you have a factory scan tool that you're using?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Haven't used a scan tool but I can get a 250 scan tool idk if that will help
Expert:  Jerry Newton replied 1 year ago.
The point I was driving at is the ten minute procedure requires a factory scan tool. If you don't have that, there is a 30 minute procedure that can be done without a scan tool. Are you familiar with this?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Yes I've done both but I got a scan tool hooked up rite now and I get a reading saying lost connection with ecm/pcm
Expert:  Jerry Newton replied 1 year ago.
OK, that's obviously a problem. If there is no data connection to ECM, the theft deterrent password *****'t be sent. Check power and ground connections to ECM.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The plugs are connected well and the ground is tight on the block to the ecm
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
How do I do the 10 minute relearn instead of the 30 with the scanner exactly
Expert:  Jerry Newton replied 1 year ago.
30 minute relearn without the scan tool. 10 minute procedure requires a scan tool. 30-Minute Relearn ProcedureUse this procedure after replacing any of the following components:The passkey III+ (PK3+) keys.The theft deterrent control module.The ECM, see important above.Important: This procedure is not available on vehicles equipped with EXPORT configured theft deterrent control modules.Important: The vehicle learns the key transponder information and/or passwords on the ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK. You must turn the ignition OFF before attempting to start the vehicle.With a master passkey III+ (PK3+) key, turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.Observe the Security telltale, after approximately 10 minutes the telltale will turn off.Turn OFF the ignition, and wait 5 seconds.Repeat steps 1–3 two more times for a total of 3 cycles or 30 minutes.With a master PK3+ key, start the vehicle. The vehicle has now learned the key transponder information and the ECM has now learned the fuel continue password.If additional keys are required to be learned, refer to Adding Keys.With a scan tool, clear any DTCs.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I've tried that over and over and keep getting that code that says lost connections to ecm/pcm but I have 2 ecm tried them both. I clear codes and it does as it should for the first 10 minutes but then I turn key off and then when I turn it back on the code with pop back up lost connection to ecm/pcm also center console screen says service theft system once I get the code. I have a whole parts car sittig next to the car can u tell me where the theft deterent control module is so maybe I can replace it from the parts car I think they where having trouble with the car prior as I got it from the auction as a repo thanks.
Expert:  Jerry Newton replied 1 year ago.
Theft deterrent module is in the column, next to the lock cylinder. I'll attach a drawing.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I have to remove the steering wheel? Because I don't have the tools for that is here a test I can do to prove the module is operating properly or what step should I take it's becoming frustrating I know it's somthing simple were is the pcm?
Expert:  Jerry Newton replied 1 year ago.
ECM is attached to the engine on the right side. It's a communication issue, and it's really a gamble because we don't know which module is killing the communication circuit, and we don't have the tools to figure it out. Since you have a donor car, you might get away with some parts swapping, and you can swap the theft module easily enough. You don't need to remove the steering wheel, you have to remove the trim covers on top and bottom of the column to access this piece.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I saw that but how does it slid over the ignition and there's a white clip
Expert:  Jerry Newton replied 1 year ago.
Do you have the lock cylinder removed?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
No I havnt messed with any thing I just want to know step by step how to remove it with out doing any damage. How do I remove the lock cylinder
Expert:  Jerry Newton replied 1 year ago.
With the key in the START position, there is a hole on the bottom side of the lock housing. Stick a small screwdriver or similar implement in there and depress the button, and the lock cylinder will slide out. Put the shifter in D to prevent starting when you do this.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok I'll try to remove that cylinder when I get home and get back to u thanks
Expert:  Jerry Newton replied 1 year ago.
Sure, let me know how it turns out.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I tried to get the lock cylinder off and it's stuck in there a quarter of the way out and won't spin or do any thing and the pin that I should decompress is no longer in the bottom hole
Expert:  Jerry Newton replied 1 year ago.
It should pull out once you've released the pin. Try reinserting it all the way, and starting over.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I got it off. the center console says service theft system is there any way to reset the theft deterent control module. Instead of replacing with the donar car?
Expert:  Jerry Newton replied 1 year ago.
If you have the lock removed, the theft deterrent system can't see the key, which is why you have this message right now. At least, that's what I surmise.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
It's still on my main car I was wanting to reset it before I replaced it with the one off donor car
Expert:  Jerry Newton replied 1 year ago.
There is no reset, if you have a message, there is an error that needs addressing.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok I think replacing that did somthing I checked all data and it says to reset the ctd?
Expert:  Jerry Newton replied 1 year ago.
You can "relearn" it, but there is no "reset" of the VTD, nor the CTD (two different systems).
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
How do I do the 10 min relearn with the scam tool
Expert:  Jerry Newton replied 1 year ago.
With a factory scan tool, it requires GM software to perform. You're stuck with the 30 minute procedure unless you have a Tech 2 and a subscription to GMTIS.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
All data says the vtd has to be relearned with the tech 2 and scanner. Would I have to do that? I mean I need some route to take here it's sitting here Ive hauled it around to 6 differnt places alrdy and the dealership won't help a bit they wanted 975 for the ecm which I have and they wouldn't help me with out paying them it's ridiclous
Expert:  Jerry Newton replied 1 year ago.
GM service manual says you can do either the ten minute WITH scan tool, or 30 minute WITHOUT scan tool technique. Either one should work, but it won't relearn if there is a problem with the circuit. Relearning does just that: relearns a new key, or new ECM. If the wiring is broken (for example) it will not relearn, you'll have to diagnose and make a repair to whatever needs repairing. But the 30 minute relearn works, if that's ALL that needs to be done.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Any way I could make sure that's all that needs to be done
Expert:  Jerry Newton replied 1 year ago.
Look for theft deterrent trouble codes, in theft deterrent module, in engine control module, and any other module you can communicate with. Look for any indication of an issue that you can find. If you just need a relearn, typically the code description will be "valid but incorrect." If you have a "no signal received" code, you will have to sort out that communication issue.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Where is each component I need to check is working where is pcm?
Expert:  Jerry Newton replied 1 year ago.
ECM is attached to the engine, look under the plastic trim cover and you'll see it. If you have a capable scan tool, it will be able to connect to each of the different computers and get the trouble codes. It will take a high end scan tool to do this, a "code reader" device won't cut it. I would just be looking with the scan tool at the ECM, theft deterrent, body controller, and any module I could communicate with, to see if there are trouble codes relative to theft deterrent OR communication issues. There are good clues in those computers.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Alright so I guess I'll search for some one with a scanner.
Expert:  Jerry Newton replied 1 year ago.
Yes, a good scan tool is the key to finding out what's really going on here. These computers have to talk to each other, and if they can't for whatever reason, the car won't start.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Where can I purchase a tech 2 scanner locally?
Expert:  Jerry Newton replied 1 year ago.
I don't know of anyone that sells them on a local basis. Your tool dealers can probably get you one, but not for a couple of weeks. Frankly, the money is probably better spent hiring someone that already owns a Tech 2 to spend a few hours with your car and work out these issues. For $300 or so, I bet you could entice a dealer tech to spend a night or a Saturday with you and a Tech 2 and get your car put together. Go into the dealership and talk to a couple of the mechanics, on a real quiet basis (management won't like this), and you can probably find someone that is willing to do this. Tech 2 is several thousand dollars to own if you buy new, $1000 or so used on ebay and such.

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