Cadillac Repair Questions? Ask a Mechanic for Answers ASAP
Hello I will help you with your question,
When you tried the 10 minute reset did you turn the key to the crank position and let it fall back to the run position and leave it there until the security light turned off?
Try this method and if the security light will not turn off (may take 11 minutes but not less than 10) let me know and I can help you from there. Make sure the battery is charged and all accessories are off as low battery voltage will prevent the procedure from working
Full chaged battery 12.3
Pulled the hdlmp fuses to keep the batt from running down
Had a battery charger on teh battery to maintain charge.
The marque rolled oil life at 0% and headlamps are recommended
Turned the key to crank and let snap back to run (10 min)
marque now states "Problem with Anti-thieft system car may not restart
Turned key off for 10 min
Turned key on for 10 min
Turned Key on for 10 min then turned key to crank, car cranks but will not start - no fuel pump / fuel (I think the fuel pumpps are disabled by the anti-thieft.
Now the car will start with hot shot sprayed into the induction but will not stay started due to no fuel pressure/fuel (tank is full)
I am not seeing a security lmp only the marque
You do not turn the key off for 10 minutes between the ten minutes on but you do need to turn the key to the crank position each time. Repeat this three times. If it does not start after this you will need to have a scantool to watch the theft enable to see if the key is being seen by the theft module. You cannot see the broken wires in the ignition switch but they can be measured with an ohmeter.
I don'\t remember if you have a security light in addition to the "service anti-theft system" message but if you do you need to watch that at the end of the 10 minutes to know when it is safe to turn the key off and back to crank again. That is your cue that it is ready to start or do another cycle in the relearn procedure.
I think you have a broken wire on the key sense so if you have or can get an ohmeter it will make the diagnosis go faster unless you have a TECH 2 scantool.
Let me know what I can do to help you with this
I've tested the original cylinder (2 small wires) with an ohm meter and have also changed out the cylinder (and wires), same result.
Now I have the original set back in place and have verified that that the old cylinder and wires are ok. This was before cycling the key for 10 min.
You wrote "but if you do you need to watch that at the end of the 10 minutes to know when it is safe to turn the key off and back to crank again. That is your cue that it is ready to start or do another cycle in the relearn procedure" I am not seeing anything saying that it is ready to start or if it needs another cycle, (I have run it through 2 complete cycles .5 hr each, still a no start) Any ideas?
You will need a scantool that can show you the theft codes that are set. This will let you know which part of the system is the problem. You have done the easy part, measure the key, insert the key and turn to the crank position while you watch the resistance on the ohmeter to see if it changes at any point in the ignition sweep.
If that checks out the problem is likely in the Cluster or the communication between the cluster and the PCM which will require a scantool that is capable of watching this communication (class 2 data) to see where the failure is.
Am I corect by thinking that the anti-theft suts off the fuel system or is this a starter based shut off, if the latter then I am looking at multiple issues.
The anti theft will disable the injectors and the starter, here is a description of the system
PERSONAL AUTOMOTIVE SECURITY SYSTEM (PASS-Key II) OPERATION PASS-Key II is a registered trademark of Delco Electronics Corporation.When a key is inserted in the ignition, contacts located in the ignition cylinder contact a resistor pellet located in the key. The Instrument Panel Cluster (IPC) measures the resistance of the key pellet and then compares this value to a value stored in the IPC's memory. The IPC, then performs one of the following functions:
If the ignition switch is turned to the RUN position anytime during the system disable interval, the IPC disregards XXXXX XXXXX pellet value until the three minute system disable interval is complete (even if the correct key pellet value was used).After approximately three minutes, the IPC measures the key pellet resistance and compares it to the one stored in the IPC's memory. If the values match, the IPC performs the system enable function (see above). If the values do not match, the IPC performs the system disable functions again (see above).If the IPC is unable to measure the key pellet resistance (due to a damaged or missing pellet), the IPC does not perform system disable functions (a readable key with the correct resistance value can be used to start the vehicle).WARNING MESSAGES For additional message information and diagnostics, refer to Instrument Panel Cluster DiagnosisSTARTING DISABLED DUE TO THEFT SYSTEM REMOVE IGNITION KEY If the PCM does not receive the fuel enable message, the PCM sends a message to the IPC to display the "STARTING DISABLED DUE TO THEFT SYSTEM REMOVE IGNITION KEY" message on the Driver Information Center, via the Class 2 serial data line. This informs the driver why the engine is not starting and starts a three minute interval, with messages, before attempting a vehicle restart.WAIT 3 MINUTES, WAIT 2 MINUTES, WAIT 1 MINUTE, and START CAR When the ignition switch is returned to the OFF position, the IPC starts a timer and at one minute intervals displays the following messages: "WAIT 3 MINUTES", "WAIT 2 MINUTES", "WAIT 1 MINUTES", and "START CAR". These messages inform the driver to wait for the PASS-Key II system to reset, before attempting to restart the vehicle.REMOVE KEY Following the "WAIT 3 MINUTES", "WAIT 2 MINUTES", "WAIT 1 MINUTE", and "START CAR" messages, alternating every three seconds, the IPC displays the REMOVE KEY message. This informs the driver that the key should be removed, before attempting to restart the vehicle.THEFT SYSTEM PROBLEM CAR MAY NOT RESTART The "THEFT SYSTEM PROBLEM CAR MAY NOT RESTART" message is displayed, when the engine is running and the IPC has detected a PASS-Key II system malfunction. The vehicle continues to run, but if the error is present when the vehicle is turned off, the vehicle may not restart.SECURITY INDICATOR OPERATION When the ignition switch is turned to the "ON" position, the security indicator illuminates for approximately five seconds, indicating to the driver that the system is operating correctly.The four bulb control modes for the PASS-Key II system are listed below.Bulb Stays Illuminated and Engine Starts If the security indicator stays illuminated after the engine starts, this is an indication that one of the following conditions has occurred:
Bulb Stays Illuminated and Engine Does Not Start If the security indicator stays illuminated while attempting to start the engine and the engine does not start, the IPC has detected an incorrect key pellet resistance (key code) value and activated the system disable functions. The following actions should be taken:
Bulb Flashes and Engine Does Not Start If the security indicator flashes and the engine does not start; the IPC has detected an open or short in the ignition key resistor input circuit. During this mode of operation the IPC will not start the system disable timer.
Thanks George, I'll have a deeper look. I appreciate yout time and efforts.
OK, I think the problem is in the cluster (lots of these digital clusters are dropping dead) if the key and the wiring is good but a scantool that can see the class 2 data makes short work of the diagnosis. If you do need to replace the cluster car-part.com may be a good site to know.