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Pete
Pete, Buick Technician
Category: Buick
Satisfied Customers: 24721
Experience:  17 years Buick Technician experience and training.
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I'm not a mechanic so here is my situation. I'm also 64. No

Customer Question

I'm not a mechanic so here is my situation.
I'm also 64. No spring chicken.
My 2005 Buick LeSabre, runs/operates fine, up until today.
Got a message from the information center that I had low tire pressure.
Checked it out, all at @ 33 psi except one which was a bit high.
let out some air and was good to go.
Got gas, Exxon Mobile, was empty and filled up.
A while later (maybe up to an hour or so) I started the car and it seemed to idle roughly, very roughly, everything shook so I turned it off.
I worried I had gotten in and just turned the switch too soon.
I tried again. Same thing, it shook like all get out. So smoke, so fluids on the ground, just horrible shake.
Got my 3030 out and tried to read the codes, here is what I found the first time around:
C 1245 something to do with ABS????
Started car many times today still shook at start up/idle.
Cleared the code, or tried to but it would not erase.
After it starts up, roughly, if I can get it to rev up for a few seconds it runs fine. So I took it around the block. Got back, hooked up the OBD reader and it now said P1133 oxygen sensor??????
Now that code is gone???????
The code reader I have is an Innova 3030 and has several Icons at the top left of the screen. It says when the icons are solid (not flashing) they have been read. The first three are solid but all the others flash in unison so I'm thinking they are not finished reading but it's been 20 minutes, should be enough by now?????
I hooked up the code reader and still no codes come up but it still starts poorly and idles roughly. I can though drive it easily if I can get it to first rev up after start to 1500 rpms for a few seconds.
Any idea what might be going on?
Is there any linkage between the tire pressure and the ABS system and this poor idle?
Thanks
Stephen
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Buick
Expert:  Pete replied 1 year ago.

My name is ***** ***** I am a professional here at Just Answer. I noticed that your question had not received a response and thought I would see if you still need help with this.I apologize for the delay and I hope I can still assist you with this here.

The tire pressure and anti lock brake fault here won't cause the shake issue.If this shake issue occurred only after you had put fuel in the vehicle there is a chance that the fuel you put in was contaminated.I would call the gas station you got the fuel from and see if they can tell you if they have had any issues with the fuel recently that may have caused this here.If they say yes then they will usually cover the costs to have this repaired on your vehicle.

If this was already checked into and the fuel is o.k. let me know so we can continue from here on this.The anti lock brake code is most likely a sensor fault with a sensor needing replaced.The oxygen sensor code most likely set due to the way the vehicle is running.

If more help is needed, use the reply tab to continue our conversation. If no further assistance is needed, kindly rate my service.You can rate at any time and we can continue to work on your question as this will not close out your question.Keep in mind in some cases it can be difficult to fully diagnose or help repair your vehicle without seeing it and I work on delivering the best possible answer from what I see to work with.Thanks Pete.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Contacted the gas station, it's new, maybe a year old, doesn't mean they did not get a bad load of gas, just waiting to hear back.
Pulled the MAF sensor off and nothing helped. But did notice when cold this morning it was worse when trying to start and as the day got warmer it tries and runs for 2-5 seconds and then dies again.
I understand the weird situation with the C1245 code and the tire pressure not being related to the start problem. I just figured I'd give you everything I could that happened during the day.
I erased all codes and drove it yesterday, before the non start issue came up, for nearly a half hour around town and no new codes come up, however, there are several Icons on the Inova 3030 that are blinking (they have not yet completed their scan) and I'm wondering how long this has to be driven before codes will appear especially since it won't start or starts and dies.
O2 Sensor? Can it stop the car from starting?
Any other ideas are always appreciated.
Expert:  Pete replied 1 year ago.

I apologize for the delay.

A faulty oxygen sensor won't cause a no start and usually won't affect the running and idling on a cold start as the computer doesn't start to read the values from the oxygen sensor until the vehicle has ran usually a minute or more so I don't think this is the cause here although I wouldn't rule it out.I have seen in some cases to where it can take extensive driving and operating before the computer runs all of its tests and is most likely related to how long it is taking for the scan tool to complete its scan to see the testing done.I will post a procedure that usually hurries up the process that can be done to help this run faster and may stop the blinking on the scan tool and may help to point out faults.I will post it here.

Cold Start
The barometric pressure (BARO) is more than 81 kPa.
The engine coolant temperature (ECT) is between (41-86°F).
The intake air temperature (IAT) is between (41-86°F).
The start-up ECT and IAT are within (16°F) of each other.
The battery voltage is between 9-16 volts.
The fuel level is between 15-85 percent.

Important: Whenever the ignition is turned ON, ignition positive voltage is supplied to the HO2S heaters. After verifying the enable criteria, turn OFF the ignition for approximately 5 minutes to allow the sensors to cool before continuing with the test. Once the engine is started, DO NOT turn the engine OFF for the remaining portion of the set procedure.

Turn OFF all of the accessories,
Set the vehicle parking brake.
Verify the transmission is in Park for automatic transmissions and Neutral for manual transmissions.
Start the engine and allow the engine to idle for 2 minutes.

Acceleration at part throttle to (55 mph) with this speed maintained until the engine reaches operating temperature. This may be up to 8 minutes depending on the start up coolant temperature.
Continued operation under these conditions for an additional 6 minutes.

Acceleration at part throttle to (45-55 mph) with this speed maintained for 2 minutes.
Deceleration to (0 mph).
Engine idling for 2 minutes while the following criteria is maintained:
The service brake is depressed.
The automatic transmission is in drive.
The manual transmission is in neutral with the clutch pedal depressed

You might try this once or twice to see if it then runs all tests and stops flashing the lights and completes the drive cycle.Since this occurred after the fuel fill up I suspect either contaminated fuel caused this here or the fuel pump may be failing needing replaced.I have seen cold fuel affect a weak fuel pump and cause it to fail in the past before.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thanks a lot for the info. Got a MAP Sensor and it looks like it's going to be good, or so it seems. I'm replacing the MAF sensor this weekend and the upstream O2 Sensor. The MAF just because, and the O2 because after replacing the MAP, I got the O2 code.
Just typical electronics going bad after 110k miles.Again thanks. This thread can be closed.
Stephen
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
After yesterdays assumed successful install of a MAP sensor, today the car would not start again.
Getting a code P0131 but you said it should not stop it from starting.
Have no idea what to think nor what to tell the mechanic when I can get it to one to check it out.
Any ideas?
Won't start, just turns over-begins to run for a few seconds-and dies.
Checked the fuel pressure and it was in line to specs, checked the EGR valve and it seemed okay, just don't know.
Put some Sea Foam in it so that I could take it down the highway today after the grandson went home but as noted, can't start it.
Stephen
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Any ideas yet?
Expert:  Pete replied 1 year ago.

I apologize for the delay.It may be possibly the oxygen sensor is shorting out and causing computer issues here.I would check the wiring to the sensor and see if it is o.k. and if found shorted it will need repaired.If found o.k. then I suspect the sensor itself may need replaced.Since this code comes back when trying to start the vehicle I would start with this and see if this corrects the fault here.There is a chance the engine computer is faulty internally as well setting a false oxygen sensor code and causing this no start issue but I would start with checking the sensor wiring and if the wiring is o.k. disconnect the sensor and see if it starts and runs,if it does then the sensor needs replaced.If it still does not then the computer may be the cause here.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I understand but I was told a O2 sensor would not prevent start up, only running. It won't start and run for more than 3 seconds.
Is this correct or did they misinform me? I hate to think it is the PCM.
Thanks
Expert:  Pete replied 1 year ago.

If the oxygen sensor is shorted at all this can cause this fault here as it can short out internally in the PCM causing issues here.Try unplugging it and see if the vehicle then starts and runs.Also tell me if the security light/theft light is flashing on the dash near the gauges when it starts and dies without turning off the key.It may look like a picture of a car with a lock across it.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Okay will do. In addition in my original post I noted the ABS system at one time said I had a valve coil short to ground on the LR wheel. Could this ABS system short do the same? The code is no longer there but it was on one time when a message came up on the info center that I had low tire pressure?
I'll get the O2 sensor unplugged and see if it will start.
Thanks
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Unplugged it, tried to start car several times. No change. Start/die/chug/chug.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
No security/theft icon showing either.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Latest news. Got a can of starting fluid. Gave it a full 1 second spray. Turned the key, it started up and ran smoothly.
Did it again, same results, ran smoothly.
Now it only ran for @ 10 seconds, but started up with ease, ran smoothly and then died like I had turned the key off.
Does this help?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Assume you will get back with me Monday?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Just in case you are going to respond, here is more info.
I sprayed the starting fluid into the air box and reached in through the window to start the car.
I kept it going with small short bursts of this stuff for @ 1 minute or so.
Got in the car and raised the rpm's up to 2000 to 2500 for @ 3 to 5 minutes and it would idle and seemed overall to be operating with no lights on the dash coming on as warnings.
I can stop it, start it and it seems to function 'okay'. There is still a very very slight miss or bump once in a great while at idle.
Went out to get the codes read again and here is what it showed.
P0170 (this could have been a vacuum leak since I had the air box open but I'm just guessing)
P0350 and P1350 are both showing and are ignition module issues. Again they could have come up due to the failure to start and run over the past 3 days?Just a bit of info for you to consider?
Stephen
Expert:  Pete replied 1 year ago.

I apologize for the delay as I was off line this last weekend.

The ABS sensor and ABS system components will not cause the issue here with the starting or running of the engine.The ignition module codes and P0170 won't cause the issue here as the starting fluid is allowing the engine to start and run.This sounds like a lack of fuel.

Was the fuel pressure ever tested at all?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
a mobile mechanic came out and did some tests one of which was a pressure test on the injector rail. It showed 50 plus psi both after the key was turned on and the pump ran and during the cranking.
remember I got a tank of gas an hour before this started and still think this may have something to do with it as well.
I can get it to start and baby it for 15 minutes and then drive it around cautiously now. More codes come up.
Not all icons on the reader have quit flashing which gives me concern. The many different systems should have all been processed by now I think. I have driven it 3 different times each @ 20 minutes. At a stop light it will 'chug' a little.
Stephen
Expert:  Pete replied 1 year ago.

I apologize for the delay.

If you can take a fuel sample and see if there is any water or contaminants in the fuel itself,if there is this can cause the oxygen sensor code as well as the P0170 and the no start and running issue here.If this is found to be an issue you will need to speak with the fuel station to see if they will cover the costs for repair on this here.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Took to mechanic, 50 to 70% water in fuel. Looking at tank/pump/filter/injectors. $2000 or more it seems worst case scenario plus rental car and other expenses.
Am talking with Sonoco to get reimbursed for expenses. May run nearly as much as car is worth.
Stephen
Expert:  Pete replied 1 year ago.

I did suspect once you pointed out the fuel issues here and the filling up with fuel that this was a water issue.I have seen fuel from gas stations contaminated before.In every case I have dealt with the fuel station paid for everything and anything needed to repair your vehicle so I hope this goes the same on your model here.

Let me know if you need anything else and feel free to rate my help.

Thanks Pete

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