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jazzmaster
jazzmaster, ASE Certified Tech
Category: Buick
Satisfied Customers: 2463
Experience:  ase certified
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Buick Park Avenue: have a 95 buick park ave that wont run.

Resolved Question:

have a 95 buick park ave that won't run. it starts and immediately dies
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Buick
Expert:  Jerry replied 1 year ago.

Hello and welcome, Super mechanic here. I will do my best to help you with your question.

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About your vehicle.

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Do you hear the fuel pump come on for 2 seconds when the key is first turned on?

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Do you know what the fuel pressure is?

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Have you checked for spark at the plugs?

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Is the security light on in the dash?

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Customer: replied 1 year ago.

pump comes on,pressure is 48 to 50 have spark security comes on when i open door

Expert:  Jerry replied 1 year ago.

If you need any more on it just let me know.

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.Please Don't Forget, the deposit you placed to ask this question is not used to compensate me until you rate my service! Please remember that when you are asked to give a rating, you are rating My Service, and not this website itself or your vehicle.

graphic

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That sounds like a problem with the Passkey2 security system. There are 15 different value resistors that were used in the keys.

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Possibly the passlock sensor in the lock cylinder for the ignition is the problem.

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The only way to know is to check it with the Interrogator tool. Most lock smiths have one. When we get that problem in the field, and not having the tool we get a lock smith to come and check it, for about $65.

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That is less than the dealership and that way there is no tow charge.

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Thanks

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

i didn't think it would turn over if it was a problem with the pass key ii at the switch,what about by passing the switch

Expert:  Jerry replied 1 year ago.
The PASS-Key II(R) module controls the starter enable relay and the PCM fuel enable input. If the PASS-Key II(R) module does not send the proper pulse width modulated (PWM) signal to the PCM fuel enable input, the PCM does not allow fuel to be provided to the engine.
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You also will want to see if the injectors are pulsing when the engine is cranking to be sure.
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There is a way to bypass the resistor. If you measure the resistor in the key then you can install one of the same value, (in the wires that go to the lock cylinder)
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Customer: replied 1 year ago.

resistor is by passed injectors do pulse teste with noid light.car starts every time but dies immeditaly. so the modual needs to be replaced or can it be bypassed

Expert:  Jerry replied 1 year ago.
Then it is not the Passkey2 system that is causing that. Hard to say if there is fuel pressure, spark and the injectors are working. Most times when that's the case, it is bad fuel. You will want to see what the fuel looks like in a jar after it sits for a few minutes, may be some water in it.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.


pulled some fuel from the rail been sitting a few min looks ok, could it be crank sensor or pcm ?

Expert:  Jerry replied 1 year ago.
Crank sensor could be it as well as the PCM but if there is spark and fuel, (when it stops running) that could also be a timing chain issue. You will want to be sure that there is spark when it shuts down, as well as a pulse to the injectors, (and fuel pressure of course) then it should run.

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But wait there may be another expert who has more. I will opt out and open it back up. Please don’t reply to this post as that will lock the question back to me, also don’t rate the answer yet, someone should be along shortly, I’m sure, thanks and sorry I wasn’t able to help with it.

.

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Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.

hi, my namne is jazzmaster and I will help you .

does the car start easy ?

no extended cranking >?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

turns over fires right off dies immediatly.

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.

you said the resister is bypassed .,how is it bypassed ?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

i put a resisto in at the colum didn't think it would make a difference and it didn't .never had a problem with it not cranking just running . fuel pressure would only get to a little over 30 so i put in a fuel pump

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.

you wont have an issue with not cranking ,and with it starting right up tells me that it is getting the right fuel pressure ,does the security light stay on ?

how did you put the resister in ,by cutting the wires from the ignition switch ?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

yes i cut the wires from the switch .security light comes on when i open the door and blinks

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.

from it starting good and then stalling after a few seconds and then you can start it again right away and it will stall again after a few seconds is telling me that it has to do with the security system .

you will need to measure the resistance at the key and then at both sides of the resister and compare them .

it could be that the resistance doesnt match and it looks from how you describe it that may be the issue ...jazzmaster ..

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

i had same problem before i spliced in the resistor only did the bypass on the outside chance ill re ohm and post numbers

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.
ok, please let me know ,there is a chance that the theft module is bad . but let me know about the resistance reading s thanks ...jazzmaster ...
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

key ohms .68 resistor is .679 had the issue before the bypass can the module pe bypassed

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.

no,

does the security light go out when you turn the key to run a wait a few ?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.


if ido the reset the security light does go off after a number of min but the over head external light pannel blinks

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

if ido the reset the security light does go off after a number of min. but the overhead lamp monitor continue to blink

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.
I would take out the theft module and look for something out of place or not looking right on the circuit board .this is definately an issue with the theft and the module do have a good failure rate
Customer: replied 1 year ago.


my understanding is the module is under the dash, pass side. how do i identify it and can it be replaced with a used one

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.

I wouldnt put a used one in as it has to have the same resistance for the car it was took out ,when you put a new one in and go through the reset for the theft .it is set for that resistance ,the used one cant do that ...

graphic

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

thanks for your help. can the resistance on a used module be tested and the corect resistor spliced in as i did for the switch i have

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.
the circuit board in the theft module is not made to be serviced ,so in answer to that ,I would have to say no
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Satisfied Customers: 2463
Experience: ase certified
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Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.
thank you ..
Customer: replied 1 year ago.


replaced module with a used one,got the resistance value from dealer, did the relearn. same problem,start dies . could it be the body control module or is that the same? what about the pcm or another sensor?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Relist: Other.
you asked me if i wanted to open it to others because he wasn't responding
Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.

I really think that a used module wont work on another car .

did it let you do the relearn ?

key on key off

key back on and wait 10 minutes or until the check engine light

do this 3 x in a roll

then key off after every sequence after the third time turn the key off and it should start and stay running .ih it doesnt then the module didnt reset and you will need a new one (new)

Customer: replied 1 year ago.


did the relearn different 3 times . i changed the resistor from a value for code # XXXXX to one for #5 doing same thing lights off dies at about 2200 -2500 rpm. new module is 400.00.

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.

did you look at the circuit board on the original module to see if there are melted circuits ,this usually is what happens to them .

at this time I will explore my data base for more info and see if I can find diagrams or troubleshooting for your car ....

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

bord looks good nothing burned no bridging,clean

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.
ok, i am looking for more info ..but I want to let you know that the ones I have worked on needed to have a new one ,as an used one wont work ...
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

my understanding is the module works off the resistor value,anew one has no set value and reads the first one given and locks in that value.so won't any module work as long as you use the corect value set too that module.

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.

yes, the module works off the resister value but for some reason I believe that you can use a used one ,I ran into that issue a short time ago and we had to use a new one ,but we also replaced the lock and key cylinder , you definately have an issue with the anti-theft system ..

let me ask you this -did the security light go out each time you turned the key to the run position and waited 10 minutes or so ?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

yes security light always goes out

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.

ok, lets go in a different direction

give me some time to explore this more with my data system and I will be back a little later ...jazz..

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

was searching around found something posted on a problem similar to mine. talked about checking the voltage on the blue wire on vats module,says it should be 4.5 volts with key on. mine is 4.5 volts key off, 13.8 key on with module in place. if i check with module removed i get 4.5 key off and jumps to 43.3, key on. says wire is bad or ecm. what are your thoughts

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.

is the check engine light on when it runs for those few seconds ?

did anyone see if there are any codes stored in the ecm/pcm ?

I am not saying that the ecm is good or bad at this point and it certainly could be an issue ..

I dont understand how you can get a 43.3 volt reading from a 12 volt system .

and that 4.5 volts with the key off bothers me

this is a reference voltage sent from the ecm with the key on ,with the key off it should be 00.0 volts .

here is a diagram of the antitheft system

check for

constant bat voltage on A1-red wire

key on volts at

B2 and A2 pink /black wire -there should be no voltage with the key off

check for grounds at

B5 AND B6 -black/white wire

that blue wire at A3 should not have any voltage reading when it either unplugged from the pass key decoder module orwith the key off

but should have 4.5-5 volts key on .

also ,please see if there are any codes in the ecm and as another thought ,if there is a code relating to the mass air flow sensor -it could be that the maf sensor is bad or dirty -this is just an extra thought -I have seen these fail and give the same problem as an antitheft issue -where they will start and stall after a few seconds

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

can't get even a few seconds of run time, just an inital light off and die, check engine does go out when it lights off. as for volt readings, taken from a auto ranging meter wiat till it stabilizes . for reference , have set meter in both dcv and 12v bat with same results across battery i pull 12.8 in both settings

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.
ok, well please go thriugh the voltage and ground checks at the decoder module and see if there are any engine codes stored ..jazzmaster...
Customer: replied 1 year ago.


i'm taking that the row with the red wire is row A , A1 red wire 12 .05 key off 11.79 key on . if thats the case have pink at A2 and B2 , have 7.6 key off 11.8 key on. have ground on both B5 and B6 both black w/white stripe. As far as pulling codes it's got that obd 1 with obd2 conector need a scanner and not code puller, don't know of another way

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.

yeah you need to pull the codes with a scanner ,if there are codes that may help fixing this ..you shouldnt have voltage at the a2 and b2 with the key off .nor voltage with the key off on.

check the fuse at # 8 -10 amp and it is possible that the ecm is bad if you do ..there is really no way to test the ecm but by checking the pinout for the ecm wiring at the ecm ..let me look further to see if I can find that diagram ,,I will be back later ..

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

fuse is good and is 10 amp. i have obd 1 tool and obd 2 with some live data but can't pull codes from this inbetween system will be a tow or drive. ecm will be cheaper than a tow

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

if there is voltage on the pink wire thats not supposed to be ,will the module have to be replaced

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.

if you jumper a and b at the obd1 connector you should be able to read the codes by the flahing check engine light

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are you talking about the decoder module or the ecm/pcm

Customer: replied 1 year ago.


the decoder module

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

dosn't have obd 1 conector ,94 & 95 had an odd ball system. it's got a obd 2 , 16 port conector on a obd 1 system. it dosn't have a obd 1, 12 port conector. only certain low end code puller/scanners will work, true scanners will pull the codes. my understanding is you can't ground the port connector too pull codes on these systems

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.

some of those odd years had both connectors ,which I could never understand why ..and yes you need a good scanner to get the codes ...no you cant ground the connector

those pink wires though shouldnt have any voltage with the key off .try this with the connector disconnected do the pink wires have voltage .

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

yes 4.5 on B side and 4.9 on A side. Picked up a used ecu/pcu 25.00 bucks thought id try it

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.
is that the voltage reading you got off of the connector side with the connectors disconnected from the decoder module ?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

yes. if key is on voltage goes up to almost 12

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.
could you pull out that # 8 fuse 10 amp and see if you still have low voltage with the decoder connector disconnected key off on those pink wires # a2 and b2 ,also see if have that same voltage on a4..if you do disconnect the ecm/pcm connectors and see if that makes a difference ...
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

fuse pulled 19.2 on both a2 & b2. a4 20.2 with pcm connected , disconnected , started high and steadily drops to 0 like its draining down not auto ranging , same on a2 &b2

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.
what kind of meter are you using and what do you have it set on ?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

it a equus model#3320 digital auto ranging ,set on dcv

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

put that used ecm in, fired right off, running security light on steady, over head lamp monitor light all flashing

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.

,,thats good ,that is why I had asked to check the voltage on the decoder again with the ecm disconnected ,you may have to get the ecm reprogrammed to resolve the overhead light issue .

also do you have the original decoder module in or the used one you got .if you have the used one in try switching the module with the original one .

if you have the original in then you may have to live with that secutity light being on .same goes for the used decoder you got ..

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

have the old one in ,security went off after 10 min. ,lamp monitors went out after i turned the lights on. now the alt is not charging, security comes back on when restarted but not lamp monitors

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.

what is the voltage at the battery with the car running ?

wow, this car has/had its issues .the ecm has nothing to do with the vehicle charging ,may be a different problem

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

spot on 12 , was working before the no start , i thank you for staying with me thru this, i need to buy you some beers

Expert:  jazzmaster replied 1 year ago.

either let it run and see if the charging comes up or charge the battery overnight on a slow/trickle charge .

see what happens .maybe from all the testing with the key on and the door open affected it ..

I dont drink beer but a couple of margaritas LOL

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