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Amedee
Amedee, Buick Mechanic
Category: Buick
Satisfied Customers: 21874
Experience:  ASE Master Technician advanced level specialist. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
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1995 buick lesabre: Car stalls..dash warning lights come..codes stored

Resolved Question:

1995 buick lesabare Car stalls then starts up again. when it stalls dash warning lights come on. NO computer codes stored.With out engine running turn key on and dash warning lights come on as they should then they start flashing at random off and on. Pos and neg battery cables checked.Master and mini fuses checked. Computer connections checked for moisture and tightness.The check engine light will some times be bright then dim and will flutter. What is the problem?
Submitted: 4 years ago.
Category: Buick
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

Hello!

 

Did you say the dash lights start to flash with the key on?

 

Maybe alarm system?

 

 

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
yes,in both cases while driving and car stalls and with motor off and key on lights flash sparatically on and off.
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

Does the check engine light also flash with the key on engine off?

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Yes, along with all other lights
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

Does the check engine light flash consistant with a relay clicking sound?

 

Maybe alarm system going off?

 

WHat is the battery voltage at when this is happening?

 

Do we have power going to and coming out of the ignition switch when this happens?

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

no,flash is not consistant with a relay sound

no alarm on this car

new battery in car , cranks motor very well

yes, that was checked

 

Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

Sorry for the delay!

 

We will have to pinpoint what the engine is missing.


Spark


Fuel


Compression

 

All three of these are tested when the engine is being cranked over. There are two way of checking for fuel. Fuel pressure and fuel trigger. Both are very important and must be present for the car to start. Fuel pressure is self explanatory. You just hook up the gage and see what the reading is. Fuel trigger is check with a noid light. The injector gets unplugged and the noid light gets plugged in to the injector clip. With the engine cranking over, this light must blink. This is the signal to the injectors from the computer. You can have all the fuel pressure in the world, but it wont matter if the injector is not pulsing gas into the cylinder like it should! Compression tester, spark tester, fuel pressure gage and noid light are all accessible at your local auto store. All three tests play a very important part in diagnosing a no start condition. Be extremely careful when doing these tests.

 

A simpler test would be to see if it runs on starting fluid. If it does, then you know you have spark and compression and you simply have a fuel delivery problem

 

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

These things are present because the car runs and you can drive it short term like a 100feet at one time. But do you mean when it wont start to check for spark,fuel pressure and so on?

Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

Yes... that is correct.

 

Next time this happens, see if it will run on starting fluid when it stalls out and does not restart.

 

Let me know!

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Sorry for the past error on my part. The car does have a security system. When I turn the ignition system on, the car won't start. I use starting fluid and the car started but would not continue to run. With the ignition switch on the run position the volt light does not come on, and we hear the fuel pump relay chattering. After about three minutes the volt light turns on the fuel pump stops chattering and the engine starts. Seconds later the lights start flickering and the car dies. ( The volt, temp, and check engine light are the ones I am talking about ) The car will not restart till .the volt light comes on.
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
WOW! THis sounds like a low system voltage issue. First thing to do is check the battery. A fully charged battery must have enough cranking capacity to provide the starter motor and ignition system with enough power to start the engine over a broad range of ambient temperatures. Even if its charged, it could still be bad causing a no crank condition! I would rec to get it load tested at a shop or at a battery store. A battery load test will verify the actual cranking capability of the battery. This is the best test. Or u can take a voltmeter and put it on the battery and crank the engine over. (Be sure the battery has a full charge on it.) If the volts drop below 9.6, the battery is bad and needs to be replaced! Just be sure all cable connections are clean and tight. Not only at the battery, but on the starter, engine and frame! Positive side as well as the negative side. If all checks out, make sure u have battery voltage on both terminals of the starter when cranking. If full battery voltage (12.6 volts) is present and the starter is not working, then the starter is bad and will need to be replaced!

 

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

 

 

There is never a no crank situation.There is a no start situation. Cranking volts 11.5 v

The car runs then dies then runs then dies. Does the security system have any electric control or fuel control that pertane to this problem.Batt light seems to effect running.During a no start situation it has spark and cranks over very well.

Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

Hello!

 

Sorry for the delay!

 

YES.. there is! THis is where I was going next.

 

You could have a bad lock cylinder causing this problem. THis is very common!

The wires inside of the lock cylinder break and the anti theft module cannot read the resistance of the key.

 

Check the operation of the passkey theft deterrent system. Check the resistance of the resistor in the ignition key from side to side.

Find the 48 pin connector to the side of the steering column, and disconnect it.

Using an ohmmeter, check the resistance between the 2 small White wires in pins E12 and E13 on the steering column side of the connector. These 2 wires connect to the contacts in the lock cylinder housing.

When the key is inserted in the lock cylinder, the resistance shown on an ohmmeter should be within 10 ohms of the actual pellet. The resistance should be accurate as the key is rotated to the crank, accessory position. If not, replace the lock cylinder housing.

 

Potential Causes:

 

Ignition Key
Lock Cylinder
Wiring

Tips: Make sure and rotate the ignition key to all positions while testing.

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

The key is on, motor not running. Nobody touching key switch , volt light,oil light,check engine light flash at random and under the hood all types of electric components clicking and fluttering.all this action nobody touching car but key switch still on.?

Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

Sorry for the delay!

 

THis brings me back to my low system voltage. Check the battery voltage at the battery terminals and check the voltage at the fuses under the hood. IF they all have full battery power with key on, then check for voltage at the fuses inside the vehicle.

 

Let me know!

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I checked system voltage at batt and maxi fuses and interior fuses with key on 11.5 volts. I checked 2 white wires e12 and e13 for ignition switch it checks ok.At fuel pump relay under dash next to E.C.M which chatters in the first 3 min when you turn key on and car wont start but will crank and volt light is off. Then after about 3 min volt light comes on then car will start and run for short time and then will die.During fuel pump relay chatter i checked voltage at relay .Main power at relay checks ok but other smaller power wire is constantly changeing voltage from 8.6vto11.5v. Why or What? Please read carfully. Thanks. Sorry for delay in response.
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

Hello!

 

So what other relays have this low system voltage?

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

No other relays have chattering or low voltage.On fuel pump relay chattering voltage only on signal side of relay. Main power side of relay good.

Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

Sorry for the delay!

 

So how many volts do we have coming out of the fuel pump relay?

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
12volts on main line side and 8.6-11.6v on signal side.
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
If we have this much of a voltage from one side of the relay to the other side (going in and coming out) of the relay, the relays contacts inside have gone bad and the relay will need to be replaced.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Please read carfully.This fuel pump relay has 4 wires, hot line in and hot line out to run fuel pump. one smaller wire hot to activate relay and a ground controled by ECM. The hot smaller wire (coming from another source) is the one changeing in voltage 8.6-11.5v not beyond relay .Correct me if I am wrong about this relay wire diaghram. If you look at the whole car wiring where does this wire get fed from in detail way,ECM,inertia switch,security,ignition switch. Why does Volt light not come on in first few minutes when you turn key on but car cranks very good but wont start, then volt light comes on car starts.What is this detail about the volt light.Where does volt light get power to turn on , is it connected to fuel pump . Thanks
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

Hello!

 

Sorry for the delay!

 

Well, it sounds to me like you have a bad connection somewhere. Maybe inside the ignition switch or fuses or fuse block or power distribution center under the hood?

 

I would start by checking the voltage at the battery when this happens and work your way towards the fuses under the hood.

 

Here is a wiring diagram for your fuel pump relay.

 

graphic

 

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Thanks for the diagram. Send me a more advanced wire diagram taking in more things like all dash lights including voltage light .Sevral pages are ok.Is PCM the same as ECM? THANKS
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

I am only able to pull one diagram at a time.

 

Tell me what you would like a diagram for and I will send it over.

 

YES... the ecm and pcm are computers. ONe is a engine control module and the other is a power train control module.

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Diagram for volt,temp,check engine light,

Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

You bet!

 

Here you go!

 

They were all in on place together so was able to pull three at once.

 

graphic

 

 

graphic

graphic

 

 

 

I hope this helps! You can always accept my answer now, and repost back again later on if you have any more questions. If you want to discuss it some more just hit "reply", it's free to do so otherwise don't forget to hit "accept" and leave positive feedback if you found my answer helpful.

 

Regards

 

AMEDEE

 

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Thanks for diagrams.Where is PCM and ECM located on car and where are there grounded. Thanks
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

You only have an ECM. Here is a picture.

 

Just check the grounds at the Ecm.

 

graphic

Amedee, Buick Mechanic
Category: Buick
Satisfied Customers: 21874
Experience: ASE Master Technician advanced level specialist. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
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