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RSRBOB
RSRBOB, Technician
Category: Boat
Satisfied Customers: 1078
Experience:  Former Yamaha Factory Service Rep, Dlr Line Tech, Serv Mgr, G/M
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Kenny O. has helped me with my 2001 Yamaha GP1200R jet ski.

Customer Question

Kenny O. has helped me with my 2001 Yamaha GP1200R jet ski. It seems like, per Kenny O., there's something up with the bendix gear. Is it also called the starter clutch assembly? When i removed the starter i can move the bendix gear forward/aft. Re-install
the starter and cranked the engine over twice. Then the starter just spins. Seems like the bendix is sticking. The engine needs to be pulled??? How far do I need to strip down the engine??? Remove the exhaust manifold and assembly??? For a another reason i
removed the bolts to the exhaust manifold but the connections wouldn't break apart. Should it be that difficult to take it apart? Any engine pulling tips would be greatly appreciated. Thx. Rick
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Boat
Expert:  RSRBOB replied 1 year ago.

Hi and thank you for your question.

The "bendix" he was referring to is what Yamaha calls a starter idler gear. Here is a parts diagram for you and the part we are talking about is reference #1.

http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/riva_normal/showmodel.asp?Type=13&make=yamahapwc&a=84&b=15&c=0&d=2001%20GP%201200%20RZ%20STARTING%20MOTOR

If you mean fore and aft as in forward and backwards on its shaft, that probably doesn't matter. The main concern with them is if they will free wheel one direction and lock up in the other direction. The way you go on to describe the starter just spinning, I suspect it has failed and needs to be replaced.

The flywheel needs to come off the front of the crankshaft to replace it. Not knowing which bolts you removed, I cannot comment on why the exhaust wouldn't come apart. Sorry. As far as tips go, I usually unbolt the exhaust from the cylinders. I use a U joint to get the 4 bolts that are facing straight up on the left side of the engine compartment holding the manifold to the center section of the muffler (muffler 2). Then you have to loosen the hose clamps over the joint between muffler 2 and the front of where the catalytic converter is. Actually, take them off completely, and slide that rubber boot all the way forward as far as it will go. This reveals 2 more hose clamps on a rubber tube that holds the muffler 2 to the cat front cover. The key to getting muffler 2 out is you have to rotate it as you lift it out. Think of the concept of unscrewing it out of the hull. It wont really lift straight up. Rotate it CCW and lift the end that had the 4 bolts in it above the fiberglass as you remove it. Next, there are 2 8mm bolts holding the back section of the exhasut (over the carbs) to the cylinder bases. Use a 12mm socket on a long extension to remove those 2 bolts. Loosen the hose clamp at the end of that same tail section at the boot where it passes through the bulkhead to the water lock box in the rear compartment. Take the rubber straps off the lock box and as you pry the rubber boot off the tail section of the muffler, slide the lock box as far back as it will go to get the boot out of the way for removal of the tail section. Obviously disconnect the 2 sensors, one for the cat and one for exh temp from the electrical box on the bulkhead. The ONLY way you can get the tail section out is to lift the right side (where the cat is) and as you lift it, you need to pass the end that was in the boot for the lock box from the left side of the craft to the right. Above the coupler assy but below the electrical box. Once you get the tail end of it on the right side of the craft, it will lift out. Installation is the exact opposite. It may look and feel like it will not come out without further dis-assembly, such as cyl head removal, but it will. Obviously disconnect any water lines before removing any of the muffler parts too. It is best to refer to a parts diagram to make sure you have gotten them all. It is also necessary to remove the flame arrestor (airbox) and carbs to get the engine out. After that, its cake. :)

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. I would suggest getting a service manual to assist with this repair.

Thanks

RSRBOB

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
thx. what would be the best way the pry apart the ajoining manifold pieces? they appear to be sealed together. like with loctite or something. I tried using a very thin putty knife with a hammer. they wont budge.Cant crack the seal. Can u reuse any undamaged gaskets or should I buy new ones? Thx. Rick.
Expert:  RSRBOB replied 1 year ago.

I would advise using a pry apart method as a last resort. I would double and triple check to make sure all the bolts are removed before resorting to that. I suggest replacing all gaskets so you can be sure you don't have to do it over if an old one leaks. Exactly which joint are you trying to separate?

Here is an exhaust diagram to help you double check for hidden bolts and so you can tell me which parts you are trying to separate. Perhaps if I knew exactly which two seem to be stuck, I can offer specific advice.

http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/riva_normal/showmodel.asp?Type=13&make=yamahapwc&a=84&b=9&c=0&d=2001%20GP%201200%20RZ%20EXHAUST%20SYSTEM

Thanks

RSRBOB

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
ok. thx. I'll check on the bolts. I'll verify disassembly locations and get back too you. thx.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
hi, thx for the info. Do you have a certain service manual in mind. awhile back i did download a service manual but it really doesn't cover a how to concept. do any of them explain a how to concept
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi . I have a question. Got the exhaust chamber lose. From the service manual it looks like there are pins at both ends. Does it mean you remove the exhaust manifold and chamber together, or is there another way. thx. rick
Expert:  RSRBOB replied 1 year ago.

I remove reference #17 and #26 as one piece. I do remove #17 from the exhaust manifold (what they call Muffler 1) With 17 and 26 together is when you can remove them and rotate them CCW to get them out of the engine compartment. The pins between parts of the pipe are not a problem. They will stay in one component or the other. They are very improbable as being the reason your pipe won't come apart.

Would you provide me the reference #'s from the diagram I sent you so I know which pieces are giving you trouble?

Thanks.

RSRBOB

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
thx. I figured the pins are no problem. Just that #17 (with pins inserted at both ends) cant be removed w/o disconnecting #26 (Exhaust manifold) and removing with #17.
Expert:  RSRBOB replied 1 year ago.

17 and 26 will come out together. You do have to unbolt the 4 bolts that hold 17 to 1, and undo the hose clamps between 26 and 48. Obviously you have to remove the bolts that hold 26 to the cylinder head, 2 bolts #35. Also, obviously you have to remove the water line that connects to 17. If you use a long #2 phillips, there is a tab underneath the hose clamp that prevents it from rotating as you loosen it. Once you have all those fasteners out, 17 and 26 will come out as one piece. This is where I was talking about rotating it on a flat, parallel plane to the ground and lifting up as it clears the hull. It is not necessary to separate 17 and 26. The entire exhaust system in the engine compartment is a tight fit, but if you follow the instructions, it will come out as I explained. The key is following the instructions. No additional dis-assembly is required. Deviating from the instructions will waste time and add frustration. Trust me, this will work. In my original instructions, I intentionally did not go into the detail of removing obvious mounting bolts. I took it for granted if you saw bolts holding something down, you would know they need to come out whether I mentioned it or not. I was trying to cover the less obvious points of the process, not meaning to skip the obvious. However, when I say 17 and 26 will come out without separating them, that is exactly what I mean. :)

RSRBOB

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
thx for the last response. yes we're on the same page. understood about removal. but get a load of this one. got a problem with the 2 upper bolts on the middle exhaust manifold. the right bolt stud loosen with the nut and the left nut loosen while the bolt stud stayed in the engine block. There's no way the exhaust manifold can come lose. why me?? Is there a way or do I need to cut the 2 bolts so that the exhaust manifold will come lose.
Expert:  RSRBOB replied 1 year ago.

Well, that is no fun.

I see two options. You nailed one of them, attempt to cut the bolt off to get it apart.

The other option would be to soak the nut and stud with "PB Blaster" penetrating oil, a few times a day for about a week. This is all contingent on if you have room to pull the manifold away from the cylinder enough to grab the shaft of the stud between the manifold and cylinder with a vice grip. If you can do that, hold the stud and wrench the nut off. The PB Blaster will work, it is just a question of how long it takes. I would think 5 days would be more than enough. If you get the vice grip on it, you can try starting with day 2 and keep giving it a day until it comes loose. It's up to you, depending on how big of a hurry you are in to get it fixed and how easy it is going to be to get a saw blade between the manifold and cylinder to cut it. A tip if you go that route, put a socket or wrench on the nut to prevent the stud from rotating so you can cut from one side.

In reviewing this, why are you trying to get that manifold off? It doesn't need to come off to replace the "bendix". You don't need to remove that to get to the starter motor if you were wanting to pull that. Based on the corrosion I have seen, there is a 9/10 chance that the nose of the starter is corroded into the cases and isn't going to be easy to get out.

Even if you have to pull the engine, if you take the carbs off, it will come out with the manifold in place. The rest of the exhaust will have to come out, but that should be easy. Then you can get the stud out and replace it.

RSRBOB

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
thx. yes I thought of the second option. but I would try to grap the left stud(with a pair of vice grips) and try to remove it. they've been soaking in PB. But what really concerns me now is your response in not having to remove the manifold. Lets back up for a second.Please review previous emails for reference. Talking with Kenny O. it seems that the starter idle gear (you refered to as the bendix being called on yahama's the starter idle gear. And I see that in the service manual that I have) is sticking (could be due to moisture or something else/ that was Kenny O's response) and that is located under the flywheel cover. Which requires pulling the engine.Now, the starter (I believe) is working. It is spinning. And I've watch this on youtube that the starter spins but the starter idle gear doesn't engage and throws the gear in to the fly wheel gear to turn over the motor. As I stated before, I would remove the starter(new one) and stick my finger in the hole and push the starter idle gear in and the spring tension would release it when I backed off. I replace the starter and the motor would crank over a couple of times then the starter would go back to spinning. Which is telling me its something to do with the starter idle gear (bendix???). If that's the case, the engine needs to be pulled. CORRECT?????Now if the engine needs to be pulled, don't you have to remove #17 & #26 (muffler 1 &2) which are connected together and then connected to the manifold. And due to the pins you remove the manifold and the mufflers will pull right out.I know the manifold don't have to be removed to get the starter out. To lead us to cutting/removing the middle manifold bolts, do you think the problem starts with the starter idle gear (under the fly wheel cover). If so then we need to pull the engine. And in order to do that we have to remove muffler 1 & 2 and manifold. Then we have to remove the right exhaust muffler assembly (on the other side of the engine) in order to pull the engine. I'm I going down the right road or I'm I off base. WOW. Please let me know. Thx. Rick.
Expert:  RSRBOB replied 1 year ago.

Yes, to change the bendix you need to pull the engine so you can pull the flywheel.

To pull the engine, you do not have to remove the starter.

To pull the engine, you can either remove the entire exhaust system, from the manifold that bolts to the cylinders all the way back to the pipe1 #58 on the diagram.

NOW, since your engine gave you problems removing the manifold, you can alternatively do the following:

Leave the manifold where it is, hanging from the cylinders. You might even throw one bolt back in so it doesn't flop around.

Remove 17 and 26 as one unit by removing the 4 bolts that hold it to the manifold (muffler 1), the 2 bolts that hold it to the head, and the 4 hose clamps that connect it to 48. I want you to think about the exhaust as 3 major components, the manifold (muff 1) the assembly that bolts to the mainfold (17 & 26) and goes across the front of the engine to 46 (Joint Exhaust 1) and the final assembly that is parallel to the engine along the right side and out the back of the engine compartment. Those are the 3 major component assemblies I am talking about. And the last 2, everything OTHER than the manifold, (muffler 1) need to come out to remove the engine, along with the carb and flame arrestor. Muffler 1 is NOT required to be removed to either get the rest of the exhaust components in the engine compartment out or to remove the engine. BECAUSE we are leaving the muffler 1 on the engine, You DO have to remove the carbs.
There are 5 "holders" (#13) that hold the cover of the flame arrestor on the base of it. Once you get the exhaust off, you can see the top 2 and the rear 1. There are 2 more on the bottom. one at the rear corner and one towards the front. You will have to just reach under the air box and feel around till you find the holder, press at the back on the tab and slide it backwards. Remove the hose clamp to separate the cover from the large black hose and it will come off.

Disconnect the oil lines and fuel lines from the carbs, and also the vacuum lines for the fuel pumps. I usually remove the front vacuum line from the cylinder block and the 2nd and 3rd vacuum lines from the carbs. Do that however you feel is easiest for you. Disconnect the 3 cables. Choke, throttle and oil pump. Try to loosen the same nuts, say the ones in front of the SS bracket, so you can just tighten them back up and be right back into adjustment. The choke and throttle are cake to adjust, but the oil pump, the most critical, is not quite as easy. It can be done if need be, but I prefer to save the time by putting it back exactly where it was.

Remove the 6 10mm hex bolts to remove the screen, then the 6 10mm hex bolts holding the carbs on, plus the 4 (#7) 5mm allen head bolts (in between carbs 1&2 and 3&4). These allen head bolts have a plastic cap on them that you put the allen wrench right through the middle of. Those plastic caps will keep the bolt connected to the allen wrench so it doesn't drop into the bilge during removal and installation. I use a long 5mm allen in a 3/8" drive socket for this as opposed to a conventional "L" shaped allen key.

Once you do all that the carbs should come right off. You will also have to remove the front piece of the air box. To do that, you only need to remove the top bolt. The bottom tabs on the air box are slotted so once you get the top bolt out, they will lift up and off the bottom bolts & grommets without unbolting them.

Here is a diagram of all that for you:

http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/riva_normal/showmodel.asp?Type=18&make=yamahapwc&a=84&b=1&Action=O

I hope that clears it up.

Thanks

RSRBOB

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
thx. I see what you're doing. It will take me awhile to remove the rest of the exhaust system. I'll be in touch. Again, thx. rick
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Another question. to winterize the ski, how do you spray fogger in to the carbs under the exhaust? As u can tell, I'm a newbie with jet skis. After completing this quest I'll be a pro. LOL. Thx. Rick
Expert:  RSRBOB replied 1 year ago.

You don't fog through the carbs, you have to fog down the spark plug holes, then crank.

Please review my instructions on pipe removal. I can tell you from personal experience the first time I took an exhaust system off of one of theses, I wasted a lot of time until I learned the procedure I described to you. It really does work and if you are having problems, double check the instructions.

Good luck,

RSRBOB

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi,Tried pulling the engine out. 1st. The manifold is removed and the carbs are still intact. With the front bracket that is attached to the engine that was connected to the U exhaust and the rear fingered propulsion shaft at the rear of the engine seems to prohibit the engine from coming out. The length is too long. Do those two components and/or the electrical box have to be removed in order to pull the engine. Thx. Rick.
Expert:  RSRBOB replied 1 year ago.

I definitely take the stainless steel plate off the front cylinder head to get the engine out. The coupler on the end of the crank shaft does not need to be removed. Once the 4 engine mount bolts are out the engine will slide forward and disengage from the middle drive shaft separating at the coupler. There is nothing wrong with leading with the front of the engine when pulling it out. I know going back in I always drop the coupler in first and then as it lowers in the hull, I slide it around to level it out. I do also unbolt the electrics box and take it out with the engine.

RSRBOB

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I should have ask this. Do you attach a chain to both engine hoist bolts (for a better name) or the rear one. This will create more of a vertical angle of the engine. Gives you more room for removal. Thx. Rick.
Expert:  RSRBOB replied 1 year ago.

I usually use a tie down attached to bolts f&r on the engine. I put it through the hook on the engine hoist so that I can tilt the engine by sliding the tie down through the hook. Since most tie downs are rated @ 600 lbs. tensile strength, it is more than adequate to lift the engine.

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