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Tan
Tan, MerCruiser Certified Technician
Category: Boat
Satisfied Customers: 8173
Experience:  39 yrs. experience with complete engine repairs both inboard/outboard and MerCruiser Certified Technician.
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how does water get into several cylinders with water supplied

Resolved Question:

how does water get into several cylinders with water supplied by a water hose? All exhaust and headers are new as well as the heads. The engine is a 1983 mercruiser 350 block. Initially the water remains on the cylinder heads but eventually gets to the oil pan.
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Boat
Expert:  Tan replied 2 years ago.

Hi my name isXXXXX will assist you.

The engine block could have holes in the cylinders. What you need to do is connect the water to the thermostat housing where the water comes from the drive and remove the spark plugs.Find which spark plug holes water runs out of. Seems like you have replaced everything but the engine block. It is possible due to the age of the engine it has rotted out or the engine block froze. Usually when the block freezes the water gets into the oil. If you get water in one cylinder and turn the engine over it will dump water into other cylinders through the exhaust valves and manifolds.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Relist: Answer quality.
the engine runs initially if started before water is introduced from the hose. Once the engine is shutdown the water back fills into the engine cylinders and becomes non-compressable.
Expert:  Tan replied 2 years ago.
Well it helps when you tell me these things. Here is what you said " water get in to several cylinders with water supplied by a water hose" Then that means the water is coming from the exhaust either a rider or a manifold. That is the only place you will get water when you shut the engine down.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I do not know the reason to direct incoming water through the thermostat. what part does the intake manifold play in this and how would you pressure test it for leaks into the cylinders?
Expert:  Tan replied 2 years ago.
This will determine if the leak is internal to the engine. The water has to come from somewhere. This is a process of elimination we have to start trouble shooting somewhere, if you don't want to do these tests you will not find the leak. Does you boat sit in the water? Did you have riser extensions between the manifolds and risers? Do you have the same exhaust system on the boat it had originally. You ask me for help do you want help? How long have you been working on boats professionally. Do you not believe I know what I am doing?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I am not a professional boat mechanic. My background is engineering and chemistry. I will do any tests necessary to determine cause of water intrusion.I just want to know any tests I don't fully understand. The boat is mine, at present it is on jacks.The new exhaust manifolds and risers are the same as original when purchased 10 years ago. There are no extensions.I believe you know what your doing, I just want to exhaust all other options before attacting the block. One other test I ran was to disconnect one hose at the thermostat and ran water back up the exhaust manifold from the bottom to see if any water was coming out of the exhaust ports to the head. This test was done with the manifold and riser off the engine. I would like to do a leak down test on the intake manifold as soon as I find a procedure.I believe that is the only area that water can be directed to both heads at the same time from the same source.
Expert:  Tan replied 2 years ago.
If the intake manifold were leaking it would show up in the oil immediately. If the gasket were bad it would leak into the oil passage above the lifter valley. The water passage only runs across the front on the intake manifold. The only place water can get in the cylinders is from a cracked block, cracked heads or blown head gasket. You said all the gaskets and heads are new. So that leaves the exhaust manifolds and risers. When you connect the water to the thermostat housing this if filling the cooling system with water. With the spark plugs out of the engine turn the water on, if water gets in the engine it will run out the cylinder that is getting water. this will narrow what cylinder may be the problem. Once we have established which cylinder the water is coming from we can start there. The next step would be to remove the exhaust manifold on that side. Do the water test again, if no water runs out the cylinder we know the manifold or riser is the issue. If water runs out the cylinder, we know it is internal engine related. Head gasket, cylinder head or block. Now this is the way I approach water in cylinders. If you have a better way have at it.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I mentioned that the exhaust manifolds and risers were new also.
we ran a test with the plugs out and water came out of both sides of the engine. I believe it was cylinders #7 and #8. This would have to be repeated to be sure.
To follow your last directive, I have the cooling system water flow diagram for this engine. The schematic drawing of water flow starts with water from the sea inlet- to the thermostat- to the water pump-to both sides of the engine-through the heads and intake manifold-and back to the thermostat. If the thermostat is closed (which it is) the water goes to the bottom of the exhaust manifold and up through the risers and out. If the thermostat were open the water would go to both and out.Our present hookup goes to the bottom of the thermostat to the risers as well as back through the circulating pump back to the engine. I live 40 miles away from the boat and twice that in age so responce may be slow.
Based upon the above where should I reattach my water hose for the test you propose?
Expert:  Tan replied 2 years ago.

If you have water coming out #7 & 8 these are the rear cylinders of both banks. Connect the water to the exhaust riser on each side turn water on where does the water come out? If water comes out the cylinders you have leaking risers. If no then connect water to the thermostat housing where the inlet water from the drive connects turn water on where does water come out. If water runs out cylinders on both banks of cylinders you have cracked engine block or cylinder heads.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Ran both tests you sugested. Cylinder # XXXXX was set atTDC for all the tests.
test # XXXXX Hooked up water hose to both risers and turned water on.Water came out of both risers through cylinder # XXXXX on the left bank and cylinder #4 on the right bank. I repeated the tests with the same results.I
I than ran test #2 with water hooked up at the thermostat. The clyinder #1 was at TDC. I blocked off water goiing to the risers to eliminate interference. I opened the hose for water passage. Water came out of cylinders #3 and #4 as it did on the riser test
There is very little water getting into the oil. Can back pressure do something like this cince the engine is not runing?

Expert:  Tan replied 2 years ago.
The risers and manifolds need to come off they are leaking. With the risers and manifolds off put water to the thermostat housing now where does water come out. There is no back pressure to push water into the exhaust with engine off. If there is any water getting onto the oil you have cracked block.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Ran test with cylinder#1 at TDC,all spark plugs out and both manifolds off. Rerouted manifold hoses back to t hermostat for a closed system. Opened water hose to thermostat. No water came out of any where,NADA!

Ran a test with air in each cylinder independently. Each clyinder set at TDC.all spark plugs out. The results are as follows.

All cylinders were run at 100psi

#1cylinder
Air from carb and #5 & 7 cylinders

#.2 cylinder
Air from rocker arm area

# XXXXX cylinder
Air from #3 exhaust port

# XXXXX cylinder
Air from # XXXXX exhaust port

# XXXXX cylinder
Air from carb, #3 spark plug and #2 exhaust port

# XXXXX cylinder
Air from rocker arm area

# XXXXX cylinder
Air from rocker arm area

# XXXXX cylinder
Air from # XXXXX exhaust port

Are defective castings a common occurrence with risers and manifolds?
Expert:  Tan replied 2 years ago.
Only in the after market manifolds and risers. Allot of the after market parts are made in china.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,
Can any conclusions be drawn from either the water tests or the cylinder air tests in conjunction with the exhaust manifolds and risers?
What is next procedure to follow to determine how water gets into the cylinders? What are your recommendations?
Expert:  Tan replied 2 years ago.
The water is coming in through the manifolds or risers. You determined that when you did the tests. So I don't understand what you are asking. The air tests mean nothing. You need to do a compression test.Since you have determined that the engine isn't the cause of the water then the engine is ok put new manifolds on and start the engine go boating.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Tan, thanks for your help and indulgence from a novice.
Expert:  Tan replied 2 years ago.
No problem Your welcome.........Thank you.............Tan
Tan, MerCruiser Certified Technician
Category: Boat
Satisfied Customers: 8173
Experience: 39 yrs. experience with complete engine repairs both inboard/outboard and MerCruiser Certified Technician.
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