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Jason
Jason, Marine Mechanic
Category: Boat
Satisfied Customers: 9863
Experience:  Degree in Marine Technology. Gas and diesel marine mechanic.
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I have a 1992 Force 40 outboard motor with the lower gear housing

Resolved Question:

I have a 1992 Force 40 outboard motor with the lower gear housing split open. It's part# XXXXX They don't make it anymore & a junk yard 3 hours away wants $750 for a used one. Is that my only option? Is there compatible one I can still purchase?
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Boat
Expert:  Jason replied 2 years ago.

My name is XXXXX XXXXX I will be helping you today. Most questions will involve troubleshooting, and usually take many posts back and forth.

 

I don't know where you got your part number, but I looked it up and I get 1600-819516A2. That is the Mercury marine part number for it. I'm not sure if you know, but Mercury bought Force a while back, used some Force designs along with Mercury/Force combination designs before phasing them out completely.

 

Now when you take my part number, 1600-819516A2, 1600 designates that this is an obsolete force part number, and your left with 819516A2. 819516A2 is the part number I get, so you might want to double check the number you have (as it does not come up a valid part number).

 

819516A2 is the only gearcase you can use on this engine.

 

Your options are

 

1. checking out that used one

2. Getting a new, but old stock unit at twice the price. Seamarine has at least 1 in stock right now.

http://www.seawaymarine.com/pages/oemparts#/s/MRC//819516A2

3. Having your lower unit inspected by a prop shop that also handles gearcase welding. They will be able to determine if the crack is in a critical location or not, and if it can be welded.

4. Simply sell what you have for parts, and purchase a used outboard. I don't know where you are from, but in my neck of the woods (i'm in florida, boating capital USA) a late 90's to early 2000's 40 hp 2 stroke in good running condition can be had for under 1000. You can definitey pick up a complete parts motor for less than what the this scrapyard is trying to sell that lower unit for.

 

 

Other than that you can burn hours or days calling scrap yards all over the place and roll the dice with a used part.

Now the gearcase used on your outboard was only used from 92 to 94. So you have to find a Force 40 from those 3 years only if searching by year. Searching by serial number,0E000001 THRU 0E093699 is the range that they used that gearcase on. Or use the part number I gave you earlier.

 

Personally, 750 for a used lower on a small 40 hp is a bit on the high side. Especially if the condition is uknown. For that kind of money, and again this is personally. I would pick up a newer outboard and part out what I had to re-coup some of the expense.

 

Post back with questions

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
The part number was written down for me by our local (Michigan) marine dealer. I guess it really doesn't matter if it's still obsolete. They gave me an exploded diagram and this particular part is labeled #1. It's the bottom piece with the "fin" shape pointing downwards. Is that what you are referring to as 819516A2?
Expert:  Jason replied 2 years ago.

819516A2 is the part number for an entire complete drive.

 

Now what is cracked on yours? Is it just the skeg that you snapped? Is it leaking oil out of where it cracked?

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Not being a marine mechanic it's difficult to describe, but I'll try: There is a round piece where the prop comes out. It has two bolts to secure it to the lower gear housing. These two parts separated as if water got into it & then froze. The break occured where the two bolts are. The top bolt took off a chunk of the piece I'm looking for. The bottom bolt took out a chunk of the "round piece" that ironically is still made (or so I'm told - 817731A5)
Expert:  Jason replied 2 years ago.

817731A5 is that endcap that has the propshaft seals and supports reverse gear, thats actually pretty common, they use that in alot of units.

 

It sounds like water got into the drive and was left to sit over the winter.

 

Either way, if that is where it is broken, then it will have to be replaced, that is not a weldable area.

 

750 is high for the lower, but scrapyards prey on people who are desperate. Here a complete motor (that needs a little work) with controlls for 500.

http://houston.craigslist.org/boa/2697964892.html

 

They are out there, not a lot for just the motor with no boat attached to it, but they are out there. What hurts you is that your limited to the 3 years that use this particular lower.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I have a photograph of the damage. Is it possible for me to email it?
Expert:  Jason replied 2 years ago.
You can upload it here via the paperclip icon, or use a photosharing website such as photobucket. Unfortunatley we do not have email accounts here at Justanswer.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Here it is:

 

graphic

Expert:  Jason replied 2 years ago.
Thats pretty ugly. Given that it definitely does have freeze damage, and I know it leaks, and who knows what else you find damaged if you opened that one up. Replacement of that lower unit is really the only option. (or replacing the whole engine if it is more cost effective)
Jason, Marine Mechanic
Category: Boat
Satisfied Customers: 9863
Experience: Degree in Marine Technology. Gas and diesel marine mechanic.
Jason and other Boat Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Well I knew it was junk of course...

 

OK. Thanks.

Expert:  Jason replied 2 years ago.
Your very welcome, good luck!
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Guess What! You were right. My part number was not valid. He transposed 2 numbers. It's really 817826A7. I found it using the number you gave me & found one online for just $217! Excellent. Couldn't have done it without you.

 

Check it out:

 

James,

Thank you for shopping with http://www.marineparts.net/. Your order number is #10176.

Bill To:
James Miraglia

4225 Branch Road
Flint, MI 48506
US
Phone: 810 250-0272
Email: XXXXX@XXXXXX.XXX

Ship To:
James Miraglia

4225 Branch Road
Flint, MI 48506
US
Phone: 810 250-0272

1 of 817826A7 - Mercury Marine - GEAR HOUSING KIT (BASIC) (PAINTED) @$190.25ea.

Subtotal: $190.25
Shipping: $16.91 via UPS Ground
Estimated Delivery: 1/4/12 - 1/20/12
Sales Tax: $0.00
Total Amt: $207.16

Expert:  Jason replied 2 years ago.
You may want to call and get that cancelled. Thats not the gearcase, thats a parts kit for it. When that comes in it will be everything except for what you need.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I'll call in the morning to find out what it is I ordered. They had the same exploded diagram I have & what I need is the one labeled #1. That's what I thought I ordered? You don't think that's the housing but what goes inside? I should think those components would be more than $207?

 

But I'll check it out. Thanks again.

 

Jim

Expert:  Jason replied 2 years ago.

Definitely make the call on that. That part numbered you ordered is not every piece inside of the drive, and to be honest I don't know exactly what is in that kit, but It will not be the whole drive. Not for 207.00.

 

If you don't mind though, once you do make that call. If you wouldn't mind telling me what is in that kit I would appreciate it.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

OK. I will. Here's the page that I ordered from. I thought I was going to get the part labeled #1?

 

http://www.marineparts.net/pages/OemParts?aribrand=HONMAR#%2fMercury_Marine%2f40_H.P._(1992-1994)_1992-C_(FORCE)%2fGEAR_HOUSING%2f06-002-823616-1010%2fFORCE82361623045

 

I hadn't thought about what might be damaged inside until you mentioned it...

 

Jim

Expert:  Jason replied 2 years ago.
I see what you mean, it shows up that very same way in all the parts catalogs (even Mercurys catalog). But that will not be the gearcase for 207. In terms of raw material, at wholesale prices, it would be 40 bucks for just the aluminum at the wholesale level. And that is before they cast and machine the unit.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I guess we'll find out tomorrow? Maybe it's the housing with the aluminum at 1992 prices?

 

The shame of it is I just want to sell the boat. I work evenings now & haven't got time for it like I used to. I pulled off the tarp in the spring & ....

Expert:  Jason replied 2 years ago.
I don't think its going to be the housing at 1992 prices, its a part kit of some kind. But let me know what they say, i'm curious to know exactly what is in that kit.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Well the good news is that's the part I need. The bad news is he doesn't have one either. He said he uses a data base provided by Mercury & it doesn't differentiate between what's obsolete & what isn't.

 

He got on some sort of network and found 3 places that had one in stock at some point this year. One sold out & the other two are closed until January 2nd.

 

I'm not too hopeful....

Expert:  Jason replied 2 years ago.

I made a call on this this morning for you. As far as that kit goes, 817826A 7. That is just the lower and the retaining cup. As in just the bare casting. No bearings, no gears, no shafts, no nothing ect ect. Which brings up 2 more points of consideration here...

 

1. What kind of shape are all your bearings and gears in? I take it that you don't know. I also take it that if you do strip down your existing lower unit you will likely find it a ball of rust in there. Which would mean now your on the hunt for all new bearings and gears for that bare casting. Which if pieced out, would cost you way more than the retail price of 1500 for a (new) complete drive.

 

2. Do you have the service manual and all the special tools to assemble a gearcase from scratch? On top of that, do you have the experience? The fitting of the bearings and gears has to be precise. So precised that you add or take away shims that can be as small as .005 of an inch until everything fits just right. If the rolling torque on bearings is to tight or to loose, the bearings self destruct. If the spacing (backlash) between the gears is not correct, and that is down to the thousandth of an inch, they self destruct as well.

 

Food for though.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

You are correct. I don't know the condition of the gears inside. Nor do I have the tools or expertise to investigate. I work for General Motors making both gears & engine assembly so I'm aware of the tight tolerances involved.

 

After discussing this with you I know one thing for certain: I'm certainly not going to pay $750 for just the housing.

 

Thanks for your efforts.

 

-Jim

Expert:  Jason replied 2 years ago.
That one for 750, does that include the gears and shafts? A complete unit that you can bolt up? If so, that might be the way to go.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I hadn't thought to ask? I just assumed it was the housing only because that's what I asked for but I didn't specify....

 

Good point. I call him again.

 

Thanks again.

 

Jim

Expert:  Jason replied 2 years ago.
Your very welcome.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Just so you know... The one for $750 did include all the gears. A complete rebuilt lower unit. I just picked it up today. I don't think it's a bad deal afterall.

 

I'm glad I went to JustAnswer. 28 bucks well spent.

 

Happy New Year.

 

Jim

Expert:  Jason replied 2 years ago.

750 for the unit if it was rebuilt with new seals and pressure tested is actually pretty fair then. 750 for just used (condition unknown) would be high.

 

Aside from that, your very welcome, glad to hear it worked out.

 

Happy New Year to you and yours as well Jim.

 

Best,

Jason

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