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Larry B.
Larry B., Marine Mechanic
Category: Boat
Satisfied Customers: 574
Experience:  Mercury/Mercruiser Certified/Verado/DTS / Yamaha Two and Fourstroke Certified 27 years experience
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I HAVE A 1989 EVINRUDE 70VRO. I THINK THE STATOR IS BAD. MY

Resolved Question:

I HAVE A 1989 EVINRUDE 70VRO. I THINK THE STATOR IS BAD. MY BUDDY HAS A 1985 70VRO. THE 89 IS LISTED AS A 6AMP AND THE 85 IS LISTED AS A 9 AMP. OTHER THAN THE QUICK START ORANGE LEADS, IS THERE ANY REASON THAT I COULD NOT TRY HIS STATOR TO CHECK THE PROBLEM? WILL IT WORK OK WITHOUT CAUSING PROBLEMS WITH THE ORANGE LEADS DISCONNECTED?
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: Boat
Expert:  Larry B. replied 5 years ago.
I don't think it will work, both the stator and flywheel are different part numbers, check your stator with an ohm meter one lead to brown and the other to brown/white should be 450 to 700 ohms,no reading means coil is open, then check from one wire to ground and then the other, any reading means coil in stator is shorted to ground. Then check between orange and orange/black, 450 to 600 ohms, and do the short to ground test. If within spec then stator is good, unplug black/yellow wire from powerpack and check again for spark, still no spark means bad pack, if it comes back problem is in kill circuit.
Larry B., Marine Mechanic
Category: Boat
Satisfied Customers: 574
Experience: Mercury/Mercruiser Certified/Verado/DTS / Yamaha Two and Fourstroke Certified 27 years experience
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Customer: replied 5 years ago.

larry,

that sounds good. can you explain the last sentence to me?is the black/yellow wire

coming from the stator to the screw terminal, or is it a wire on the pack? do i turn the

engine over as i check it? where do i check this? how much spark ? can i set the meter on volts or amps to test the amount of fire? what kind of problem in the kill circuit, and how do we test it? just as a brief overview; the motor revs up to 5000 or so then dies,

it then reaches around 3500 or so and revs again. once again dropping rpms. i have cleaned carbs, cleaned and checked fuel system, checked valve at motor where fuel

line connects, cleaned choke lines and tested, checked fuel diaphragms, connected fuel directly to carb lines and pumped ball, used electric fuel pump, replaced coils and spark plugs, tested temp sensor and oil sensor, disconnected wiring harness and ran without ignition switch. buzzer still sounds and she dies as explained. someone suggested it might be the rectifier. i tested the leads from the stator with the motor running by skinning a place on each brown wire. as the engine reached the magic rpm the voltage drops from around 125-130 down to 60 or so then recovers until it surges again.

Expert:  Larry B. replied 5 years ago.
The black/yellow wire is the wire that is grounded by the ignition switch when you key off to stop the motor, or by the emergency stop switch when the lanyard is pulled. It will be in a connector going to the powerpack unplug the connertor and push the socket out of the connector (not the end with the pins in it) using a small pointed object, unplugging it eliminates the stop circuit. If the stop circuit has a short it can cause loss of spark. unplugging the main harness will eliminate the boat wiring but there could still be a short in the motor harness.The spark is made by the ignition coil putting out around 40,000 volts, can't read it with a meter, you must use a spark board or single spark gap testers one on each lead, with the spark plugs removed, turn the motor over and look for the spark to be bright blue, and it should be able to jump a 7/16 inch gap. Never skin back the insulation on the wires, this will lead to water getting under the insulation and damaging the wires. The rectifier regulator should have nothing to do with this problem. The voltage you gave is about right but are you using a peak reading adapter? Or just a/c setting.
Expert:  Larry B. replied 5 years ago.

After pushing the wire out of the connector plug the connector back in and try it, or use an ohm meter , with the main harness unplugged just pull the connector apart and check the black/yellow for continuity to ground, any reading means short. If stator , coils and everything else checks out then replace the pack. and does it have QL77JC4 Champion spark plugs in it? Or some other brand or non-resister type plug. and a correction the voltage from the stator should be 150 at cranking speed not at 5000 rpm.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.

i am familiar with the kill switch wire. it comes out of the pack but is not in a plug. it is black /yellow and is connected by waterproof buttsplice. i guess it was cut off earlier. i know it is the right wire because i ran it without it and the motor wouldn't cut off without

me hitting the chokes. my meter is standard and is set on ac volts. i did use a spark tester between the spark plug and the coils. i tested each one individually. they dropped the light at the magic rpm and picked it up around 3500 again up and down. each one was consistent, so i am sure it ain't the coils. without the light, grounded at the block they are strong and blue. the plugs are champion L77JC4 and are brand new. the plugs that are on the powerpack are: one; blue/white/green/purple. two; orange/orange-black, 2 yellows. no plug: there is the kill switch wire, the brown temp sensor? three orange---blue stripe-top coil--solid center coil--green stripe--bottom coil and the black ground under the mount bolt.i think the voltage is around 60 to 70 on browns at crank over. it has been a while, i don't recall exactly.

Expert:  Larry B. replied 5 years ago.

The only way to read the voltage from the stator is to use a peakreading voltage adapter, the stator puts out a/c voltage and the adapter averages out the positive and negative peaks in votage to give you a steady reading. The meter set on a/c volts cannot read this because it happens to fast. check the stator like I suggested with an ohm meter.The blue, white ,green and purple wires are the trigger leads.

 

I see that you mentioned a horn going off, is it going in and out of slow (speed limiting overheat warning) maybe? If the temp switch lead is solid tan, it may be the case that there is some calcification in the cylinder head causing a hot spot, the new temp switch is less sensitive to this and has a tan wire with a blue stripe. There was a service bulletin about that a long time ago.

 

If you have good spark and it is not going into S.L.O.W. then the problem is elsewhere, were the carbs disassembled cleaned and adjusted properly? Debris floating around in the float bowls can block the high speed jet and when the motor slows, it can fall away, the rpms pick back up and it gets sucked back to the jet, does it run rough when the rpms drop or still sound like it is firing on all three? On a motor this old the fuel lines can come apart on the inside and a flap fall into the fuel stream partialy blocking it off, check the fuel hoses on the motor, are they rock hard or mushy feeling? replace them. This is a problem that show up even more now that we have ethanol in our gas.

 

Another trick is to hook up a timing light and look into the carb throats with the engine running at speed and watch the fuel that is coming out of the main nozzle, you can almost count the drops of fuel as the light is like a strobe light and stops motion. look for the amount of fuel to lessen or stop and pick back up as the motor surges.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.

it starts and runs great at idle and all the way up to the drop out rpm. it is running fine on the low end when it drops. it is rapid like-----vroom 1secdrop---vroom 1sec drop.. maybe

that explains it. its like it is programmed to die at that rpm, almost as if it is cut off and one second later restarted over and over. but like i said, when it does, the spark plug light is showing light off at the one second interval, then on as it revs, then off for the one second, then on and so on. it will do it in or out of gear, with or without the wiring harness connected. i thought originally it was a sensor. but, even with the oil sensor and the temp sensor disconnected or shorted to ground it does the same thing. that would indicate a fire issue and not fuel wouldn't it? if the stator is bad can it cause this as it gets hot and shorts out at high rpm or not? thanks for the input and i will try the tests on the stator in the am. you mentioned disconnecting the kill switch wire, do i turn it over with ignition and test? if so, which wire do i test for spark? do i take the plugs out during the test?

Expert:  Larry B. replied 5 years ago.

Yes you would disconnect the the black/yellow at the pack and test for spark at the coil leads, but you stated that you have already run the motor with this wire disconnected from the pack right? If not then disconnect it from the pack and run it to see what changes if anything. If the problem goes away with the wire disconnected then there is a short in that wire somewhere. and you will have to short out the black/yellow from the pack or use the choke to stop the motor.

 

It has been my experience that when a stator shorts out when it gets hot, that the motor will die and then will restart after the stator cools. The stator supplies a/c voltage to the pack and it is rectified to d/c voltage and stored in a capacitor, voltage from the trigger tells the pack to release the stored voltage to the coil on the cylinder that is supposed to be fired, if you check the stator, triggers and ignition coils with an ohm meter and all check good then something may be going on in the pack. It could also be heat related and would happen faster than in the stator. Thats the way you troubleshoot this ignition system, if everything test good then replace the pack, there is no test for it except output voltage to the primary coil wire.

 

A fuel related surge can happen quickly also, I would not rule it out until I have looked at the fuel delivery with the timing light, while the motor is running. I can get you the specs for the triggers, and the ignition coils , but i doubt it has anything to do with the coils. Check for 35 to 45 ohms between the white and blue, white and green, white and purple. With the plug disconnected from the pack and using the pins or sockets in the connector. Ignition coils are 0.2 to 1.0 ohms on the primary and 200 to 300 ohms thru the spark plug lead.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
are the tests on the coils and pack performed with the ignition off, just testing the leads from the pack with no ignition on and the coils unplugged from the powerpack and the spark plugs? i am pretty sure that the last time i checked it, the kill switch wire disconnected did not change the result of the rpm drop. i will test it again tomorrow along with the other suggestions you gave me. can i access you directly tomorrow around the same time in the evening? the last guy that tried to help me with this issue just quit responding even though i kept paying for responses. i just gave up on the whole issue for the last two months or so because i have been really busy. i will make sure to add a bonus to your responses. you have been very helpful.
Expert:  Larry B. replied 5 years ago.
Do all ohms test with ignition off, unplug the stator charge coil wires (brown, brown/white,orange, orange/black) and unplug the timer base (trigger coil) the white,green ,blue and purple, and do the ohms test I suggested. Do not check the wires going into the pack but the wires going up under the flywheel. I will be in and out all day, if the rain stops I will be fishing till it gets dark, but will be online afterwards. Record your results and I will try to tell you what to do.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

FROM STATOR: COILS:

ORANGE PAIR-----535.2 OHMS 245.1 OUTPUT .2 INPUT TOP

BROWN PAIR------525.2 OHMS 244.4 OUTPUT .3 INPUT MIDDLE

YELLOW PAIR---------1.7 OHMS 246.2 OUTPUT .2 INPUT BOTTOM

PURPLE/WH----------10.8 OHMS POWER PAK:

GREEN/WH------------10.8 OHMS 94.9 BLUE/WHITE

BLUE/WH---------------10.8 OHMS 92.6 GREEN/WHITE

WHILE CRANKING MOTOR; 105.3 PURPLE/WHITE

ORANGE PAIR----119.5 VOLTS AC

BROWN PAIR-----139.8 VOLTS AC

YELLOW PAIR------10.2 VOLTS AC

WHEN THE KILL SWITCH WIRE IS CONNECTED OR DISCONNECTED THE ENGINE STILL BEHAVES THE SAME WAY WHILE RUNNING. I HAVE ANOTHER

POWERPACK. I TESTED IT THINKING TO PUT IT ON THE ENGINE FOR A TRIAL,

THE RESULTS: PURPLE/WH--146.9...GREEN/WH--86.8...BLUE/WH--227.5. I GUESS THIS IS A NON WORKING PART, CORRECT? TELL ME YOUR OPINION. I THINK IT

IS TIME TO GIVE UP ON THIS THING, OR TRY ANOTHER PACK.

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.

WE ARE NOW TAKING THE PLATE OFF THAT ALLTHE ELECTRONICS ARE MOUNTED TO TO SEE IF THERE ARE ANY SKINNED OR BURNED WIRES BEHIND THE MOUNT PLATE THAT COULD BE SHORTING OUT. WILL ADVISE. THE WIRE TO THE TEMP SENSOR AND THE TEMP SENSOR ARE SOLID BROWN. NO BLUE STRIPE. STILL HAVE BUZZER. WITH THE WIRING HARNESS DISCONNECTED KILL WIRE HAS NO CONTINUITY TO GROUND AND NO READING, AS SOON AS HARNESS IS CONNECTED THERE IS CONTINUITY BUT A 0.00 READING. ALL THE WIRES BEHND THE MOUNT PLATE, EVEN THE TRIM WIRES TO THE RELAYS LOOK OK AND ARE SEALED UP TIGHT. NO PINCHES OR SKINNED PLACES

Expert:  Larry B. replied 5 years ago.
Sorry about the delay, got back from fishing and my internet service was down, the ohm reading you got on the triggers were low they should have been 35 to 45 ohms if they were all 10.8 then that may be a problem, or was that a voltage reading? Your output voltage readings do me no good unless you are using a peak reading volt meter or adaptor, they give no spec just using the a/c setting on a meter as it is not accurate. Did you do the short to ground test on the brown and brown/white wires, dissconnected from the pack and putting one meter lead on one of the wires and the other lead to ground, with meter on ohms scale? Check both brown and both orange wires, any reading means shorted. If you have another pack, by all means hook it up and try it. Don't worry about doing any voltage tests, just unplug the wires going to the pack and test the components with the ohm meter, leaving out the pack, if you try to do it hooked up to the pack you will not get accurate readings.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

THE 10.8 WAS OHMS ON THE PLUG THAT COMES FROM THE STATOR.USING THE WHITE AS ONE PIN AND TESTING ALL OTHERS WITH THE WHITE. BOTH THE

MAIN INPUT PLUGS WERE DISCONNECTED. THE ONLY THING THAT WAS CONNECTED WERE THE WIRES TO THE COIL AND THE KILLSWITCH WIRE.

DOES THAT MATTER? IF SO I WILL DISCONNECT ALL AND TRY AGAIN. YES I DID

ALL THE SHORT TO GROUND TESTS ON ALL BROWN AND ORANGE WIRES WITH ONE LEAD IN EACH INDIVIDUAL WIRE AND ONE WIRE GROUNDED TO

THE BLOCK. THEY ALL READ 0.00 ON OHMS. I TRIED THE OTHER PACK AND

THE ENGINE WON'T EVEN START USING IT. I FIGURED THE READINGS I GAVE

YOU EARLIER ON THE TRIGGERS WOULD BE THE REASON WHY. WHAT NOW?

I AM READY TO LIGHT A MATCH

Expert:  Larry B. replied 5 years ago.
Yea you tested it correctly, that is the only thing I see out of spec on the ohms tests. Do you have the proper tools to remove the flywheel and reinstall it? You must use a puller and pull it straight up, if you use a hammer to knock it loose you will damage it. And it must be torqued to the proper spec when it is put back on. My suggestion to you would be to bite the bullet and take it to a certified tech at a dealership, have them trouble shoot the problem and hopefully replace the proper part, it will save you money in the long run, and maybe some hair on your head, I can only guess at this point and what if I guess wrong, you replace the part and still have the problem? And after you buy and install an electrical or ignition part, you cannot take it back for a refund because the package has been opened and the part installed, it is no longer new. Sorry but this is the best advice I can give you right now. The timer base could be a problem (trigger coils) it is unusual to see them all read exactly the same.
Expert:  Larry B. replied 5 years ago.
After checking specs in a service manual today I find that the ohms spec I gave you was wrong (website had wrong readings) your trigger coils are in spec. Check for short to ground on these wires also.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

LARRY,

THANKS, XXXXX XXXXX NOT FIND A STATOR THAT FIT, NOR COULD WE FIND A

TRIGGER ADVANCE. I ASSUMED IT WAS BAD FROM THE READINGS. A LOCAL

MECHANIC HAD A POWERPACK TO FIT A YEAR OLDER 70. I USED IT NEW

OUT OF THE BOX (NO CHARGE) AND RAN THE BOAT WITH IT TEMPORARILY

CONNECTED. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT IT DID NOT HAVE QUICK START

LEADS, LIGHT BROWN LEAD (TEMP?), AND THE REV LIMITER. BASED ON WHAT YOU SAY HERE AND HAVE SAID, YOU WERE CORRECT. THERE WERE NO OTHER PROBLEMS WE COULD FIND. SHE RAN LIKE A RAPED APE, EVEN ON

YEAR OLD FUEL. THE ONLY ISSUE (6800 RPMS, I PULLED HER BACK). WE ARE ORDERING THE RIGHT PACK TOMORROW. I GUESS THE REV LIMITER IN THE OLD PACK WAS BAD. THANKS AGAIN. I WILL FIGURE OUT HOW TO ADD A BONUS TO THE PAY AND SHOOT IT IN TOMORROW.

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