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AudiDoc
AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner
Category: Audi
Satisfied Customers: 6426
Experience:  I've been working on Audis since I was 18 and own an independent Audi repair and performance shop
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Audi a4: 2005 audi a4 3.0 cab car is running flat on bank

Customer Question

2005 audi a4 3.0 cab

car is running flat on bank 2 we put new cat on right side of engine put in new coil packs fuel preasure is normal put in
new ecm bank 2 miss fires whole side
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Audi
Expert:  AudiDoc replied 1 year ago.

AudiDoc :

Hello, I'm Jason. I will do my best to answer your question quickly and accurately using the information you have provided.

AudiDoc :

What are the current fault codes?

Customer:

misfires all bank 2 I do not have the codes the audi store in sweickly just wants to keep changing parts.

Customer:

if im in the car what side is bank 2 is it the right or left

Customer:

I can fax you the latest bill from them

AudiDoc :

Bank 2 is left. Driver's side

AudiDoc :

so, codes P0304, 305, 306

AudiDoc :

?

AudiDoc :

There should be more than that though, and the rest of the codes would be really helpful here

AudiDoc :

I'd like to know if there are any cam position codes as well

Customer:

never any per the audi dealer

AudiDoc :

I have a feeling that they're not giving you all of the information, unfortunately.

AudiDoc :

How many miles on the car?

Customer:

81548

AudiDoc :

and have they checked cam timing, and pulled the driver's side valve cover to check for cam lobe damage?

Customer:

yes all are good the put new ecu in and it ran better but again bank 2 is what side if im sitting in the car

AudiDoc :

Left side

Customer:

it is now moved to a different side it was the passenger side last time

AudiDoc :

Ok, so on your invoice, they specifically said that they removed the valve covers, put the cam lock tools on and verified timing and camshaft condition?

AudiDoc :

or they actually replaced the belt?

AudiDoc :

Is that what I'm seeing?

Customer:

Yes that was done before I took it to them But nowfaults are on the other side could the cat be restrickting that side as well. The did both checked the cam and then sense it was apart did water pump and timing belt

AudiDoc :

Well, I always replace cats in pairs on these engines, since they are so difficult to access, and they do tend to need cats replaced at 70-100k miles

AudiDoc :

but the easiest way to see if there is a backpressure problem is to remove the primary oxygen sensor on the misfiring bank, and start the car

Customer:

I have never had trouble with audis like this. First one and its cost me 3000.00 so far right side cat 1000.00 this bill for 1058 and another bill for 1100 + 650 in labor 3800 sorry in a car I sold for 13500

Customer:

Yhe primary is in front of the cat Yes

AudiDoc :

that's a ridiculous amount of money for them to charge, considering retail price on the cat is 1550

AudiDoc :

yes on that last question

Customer:

And you can not buy aftermarket for this because it is an automatic

AudiDoc :

doesn't matter. None of the aftermarket cats pass the ECU's efficiency tests

AudiDoc :

I will never put an aftermarket cat in a 3.0 again

Customer:

If i remove that drive it and it clears up I have my problem. because it moved to the other side safe to say not electrical after the ECU replace

AudiDoc :

Yes, safe to say. Also a shame that they suggested ECU replacement for this problem, since I've never seen an ECU cause full bank misfires

AudiDoc :

seems like they're throwing parts at a problem rather than diagnosing it

Customer:

we also put new fuel filter on but im sure that is not important

AudiDoc :

fuel filter also won't cause a single bank misfire

Customer:

I just find it odd that it has moved to the other side here is exactly what ro say

Customer:

road tested car operates better enginge is at full throtle feels a little flat. no flashing check engine light till a high speed cruise touque converter locks up engine is loaded then it flashes all on bank 2 miss fire miss fire counts are around 60

Customer:

cyclinders are not completely dead but you can feel engine fluttering

AudiDoc :

I still suspect a camshaft or cam advance problem

AudiDoc :

also, some data-logging is absolutely necessary during the time that this is happening. Monitoring the 09x blocks in the engine control module will show EXACTLY what is going on with the cams, while at the same time, monitoring block 016 for misfire events in cylinders 4-6

Customer:

well scanning ro to send you copy

AudiDoc :

Ok. Where are you sending or uploading this?

Customer:

audi
Full Size Image

AudiDoc :

perfect. Give me a few moments please

AudiDoc :

Ok, so they did do open exhaust.....still reading

Customer:

sorry i am so confused with this i am pretty good at figuring things out this i have never encountered

AudiDoc :

Ok, so the report is ok. Not great but ok. What jumps out at me is that they tested this with open exhaust, although not sure how they could have done that, since the exhaust right out of the manifold would have caught the car on fire

AudiDoc :

If they did somehow test with open exhaust, then they would have had to remove both cats, and at that point, been able to inspect the other side for internal meltdown

Customer:

the issue has also moved from bank one to bank 2 now

Customer:

and they are guessing on that cat being clogged as well

AudiDoc :

and it shouldn't be a guess, since again, if they tested with open exhaust, then they could have checked the cat

AudiDoc :

and did they ever check compression or leakdown?

Customer:

they did notremove both cats i would bet on that

Customer:

only on the right side

AudiDoc :

then how could they have run the car with open exhaust as they mention in the RO?

Customer:

my other tech did and said compression was with in spec and we had no leak down issues

AudiDoc :

then I have to get back to live data, which doesn't seem like they did fully. They did supposedly monitor misfire blocks, but not cam position and advance blocks. I truly think that's where the problem lies, and that their technician is just not familiar enough to know to look at this

Customer:

down lower it says it is now on bank 2 and maybe clog on the left side

AudiDoc :

yes, saw that

AudiDoc :

I truly don't think that's the problem

Customer:

the mis fires were all on bankk one orignally now they are on bank 2 and they are now calling for cat on the left side now

AudiDoc :

Yes, I completely understand this

AudiDoc :

hence why I'm stressing cam position/advance problems

Customer:

Thats what has got me puzzeled it has moved from one side to the other thought it might be a harness issue until it moved

Customer:

what causes cam position advance on this unit?

AudiDoc :

there are cam variators inside the exhaust cam sprockets

Customer:

some one said these could have shims on the cam

AudiDoc :

shims on the cam?

AudiDoc :

Never heard of that, and I work on a LOT of 3.0s

Customer:

It might be on different motor Heck I would of been cheaper to put in a new motor

AudiDoc :

much

Customer:

well ill pull out the primary sensor on the left side and see if it goes away then go from there i guess. Maybe put new cam in it but i have another bill coming where they tested everything and said fine but it could be a new cam which i have never heard of one of those going bad be

Customer:

whats your hourly rate at your shop

AudiDoc :

I've put plenty of cams in these, but I have to stress that some live data needs to be read out by an experienced guy before you throw any other parts at this.

AudiDoc :

we're 100/hr for diag time

Customer:

mustbe in a big city

AudiDoc :

Pretty normal for the area, but not a huge city

Customer:

not close to ohio Ill send you the car

AudiDoc :

Unfortunately, we're not allowed to disclose a lot of personal info. Figured you we're in the Pitt area, since that's where Sewickley is

AudiDoc :

been through there quite a bit for what it's worth

Customer:

so I can not send this to you I really need to find some one who can fix it

AudiDoc :

I could get into some issues here with Justanswer, possibly jeapordizing my work here.

AudiDoc :

However....

AudiDoc :

if you want to write customer service for a possible exception, it's worth a shot

AudiDoc :

here's their email. Reference this chat, tell them your situation, and see what they have to say

AudiDoc : XXX@XXXXXX.XXX
AudiDoc :

still with me?

AudiDoc :

Ok, going to be shutting this down in a minute or two

AudiDoc :

you'll be able to respond via email format if necessary

Customer:

thanks

AudiDoc :

we set for now?

AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner
Category: Audi
Satisfied Customers: 6426
Experience: I've been working on Audis since I was 18 and own an independent Audi repair and performance shop
AudiDoc and 3 other Audi Specialists are ready to help you
Expert:  AudiDoc replied 1 year ago.
Our chat has ended, but you can still continue to ask me questions here until you are satisfied with your answer. Come back to this page to view our conversation and any other new information.

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Customer: replied 1 year ago.


Jason have car back here it I put my scan tool on it and the bank 2 02 sensor is all over the board I mean up down like nobody's business while the one on the right is steady moves some but not like this one

Expert:  AudiDoc replied 1 year ago.
Which still "feels" like a cam timing issue to me, from a distance. What sort of scan tool? Do you have Euro software?

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