How JustAnswer Works:

  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site.
    Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.

Ask AudiDoc Your Own Question

AudiDoc
AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner
Category: Audi
Satisfied Customers: 6426
Experience:  I've been working on Audis since I was 18 and own an independent Audi repair and performance shop
14582033
Type Your Audi Question Here...
AudiDoc is online now
A new question is answered every 9 seconds

Audi A6 Quattro Avant: How can I line up the timing marks if

Resolved Question:

How can I line up the timing marks if the belt was taken off before the cam or cam gears were locked.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Audi
Expert:  AudiDoc replied 1 year ago.

AudiDoc :

Hello, I'm Jason. I will do my best to answer your question quickly and accurately using the information you have provided.

AudiDoc :

This one is going to be all but impossible if you don't have the cam locking jaws. There is no way to set cams properly without them.

AudiDoc :

In addition, the reset socket for the cam advancers is necessary to do this job right

AudiDoc :

The reason I say this is that, if any of the cams are mistimed, even by 1-2 degrees, you will absolutely get a check engine light at best...

AudiDoc :

or a full bank of misfires, or at worst, valve to piston collisions

AudiDoc :

There is a way to start from scratch to be able to rotate the crankshaft to a specific point so none of the pistons are at TDC

AudiDoc :

this is so that you can rotate the cams freely in order to set valve timing

AudiDoc :

I'll hold the chat open for a little while to see if you can access it

AudiDoc :

I'll hold for a bit while you read through. believe me, I can't stand giving bad news, but I have to be 100% accurate with my answers as well

Customer:

So what is my best route to get the proper tools. Audi dealer or a Mac or Snap On Tool rep.]? Do you know of a large chain auto parts store that would supply these?

AudiDoc :

I usually get my Euro tools from Baum down in Florida, but they're kind of pricey. Let me do a bit of searching. You can actually get by ok without the crankshaft pin.

AudiDoc :

And thanks for understanding, and not blasting me for the information given so far

AudiDoc :

Not sure about the chain parts store possibility though, as I've never needed to make that call

Customer:

I'm in Metro Chicago so my choices should be pretty broad. I will check online. Do you have the PN for the tools to assist my search.?

AudiDoc :

Ok, I actually found a set for pretty good money, since I paid about $400 for my set

AudiDoc :

here

AudiDoc :

http://www.amazon.com/Audi-3-0L-Master-Camshaft-Timing/dp/B007CAENL8

AudiDoc :

about $150 with shipping

Customer:

What are the green & yellow dots on the cam gear housing for?

AudiDoc :

There shouldn't be any dots anywhere, unless a previous mechanic put them there

AudiDoc :

The only physical markings are on the crank pulley and lower timing belt cover

AudiDoc :

Also, in that Amazon description, the individual tool numbers are listed

Customer:

I do have a photo of the cam gear positions, prior to taking the belt off. Im not sure at what position the crank shaft was at though. I remember I only turned the crank about 90 degrees max in order to bring #1 to TDC.

AudiDoc :

Well, that might not be the case. Are you sure you brought #1 to TDC, or did you just line up the crank pulley with the mark on the timing cover?

AudiDoc :

unfortunately, just looking at cam sprockets won't help, since there are no marks. if you had the valve covers off, I might figure out how close you are

Customer:

I pulled the spark plug & brought piston to top of stroke. I then tried to blow air into the cylinder to confirm valve position.

Customer:

Valve covers are off

AudiDoc :

ok, that makes things tougher, since the timing position on the crank pulley and cover actually brings #3 to TDC

AudiDoc :

this is really going to take some light stepping to make sure you don't bend valves

Customer:

Ok you are hinting (but not recommending) towards putting crankshaft in a position that will allow cam gears to turn without contacting valves?

AudiDoc :

I am.....let me try to explain this.....

AudiDoc :

Ok, let's say you never took the belt off, and had the crank pulley set to its marks

Customer:

Continue

AudiDoc :

If you then rotated the crank 45 degrees CCW, all pistons would be out of harm

AudiDoc :

then you could do whatever you wanted with the cams

Customer:

OK, right now the crank pulley mark is straight down at 6 o'clock

AudiDoc :

ok, so 180 out

AudiDoc :

but the thing is that it will be difficult to bring it to the....well, I guess we'll call it the 10:30 position

AudiDoc :

without hitting valves

Customer:

"180 out" which cylinder are you referring to. # XXXXX I'm guessing. if not, Im not following you

AudiDoc :

well, let's say the crank is on the timing mark. That mark is at about the 12:00 position, right?

AudiDoc :

still with me?

Customer:

The crank pulley mark we are seeing is a small blue dot. The mark on the housing is an unmistakable arrow. Should I be searching for a more permanent mark on the crank pulley?

AudiDoc :

Yeah, not a dot at all. It's a thinly scribed line on the inner circumference of the pulley

AudiDoc :

again, no dots at all on this engine

Customer:

My bad. Blue dot & etched mark are in same location

AudiDoc :

ok, good.

AudiDoc :

And we're talking about the serpentine pulley, not the crank sprocket, right?

AudiDoc :

just want to make sure we're on the same page

Customer:

yes serp pulley

AudiDoc :

ok, good. So, if the marks are perfectly lined up, it's the #3 piston that is at TDC

AudiDoc :

got that so far?

AudiDoc :

Considering the firing order is 1 4 3 6 2 5, if that mark is at the 6:00 position, that means the #5 piston is now at or near TDC

Customer:

yeah. The $60,000 question is how do I get the crank there without doing any damage?

AudiDoc :

well, that's a situation I've never found myself in (no offense intended at all), so I'm trying to work out a way to get there

AudiDoc :

hence the step lightly comment earlier

AudiDoc :

there is literally only 2 ways of doing this, and only one that will ensure, 100%, no valve damage

AudiDoc :

the first way is to work the crankshaft around very slowly, if you feel any resistance, stop.

Customer:

Gotcha, I am measuring 7" on the nut from top of cylinder to top of cam housing. Does that dimension mean anything to you?

AudiDoc :

have the spark plugs out, and valve covers off.

Customer:

All plugs out & covers off

AudiDoc :

Use a screwdriver in the plug holes to figure out where the pistons are....

AudiDoc :

pay attention to cam lobes

AudiDoc :

rotate cams so that the "up" pistons also have "up" loves

AudiDoc :

lobes

AudiDoc :

does that make sense?

Customer:

OK we have two sets of eyes so that should make it easier.

AudiDoc :

ok, good. Now, ready for the 100% no-damage method?

AudiDoc :

and then I do need to sign off, but will be back on in about an hour

Customer:

Ok we are both assuming that # XXXXX is at TDC or very close. Checking lobes now

AudiDoc :

Remove the upper cam housings, so that the cams pop out of their bearings, and all valves are closed

AudiDoc :

but you'll need the Audi sealant to seal them back up

AudiDoc :

I really do need to sign off for a bit here

Customer:

(8) torx shcs each?

Customer:

Ok assume that step is complete. Then what

AudiDoc :

More like 26 torx for the cam cages per head

AudiDoc :

T30's I believe

Customer:

1st time I used Just answer. Tell me what the procedures are.

AudiDoc :

I'm sorry, but which exact procedure, meaning the rest of the procedures to set up timing on this engine?

Customer:

No, Just Answer rules or guidelines. I have an annual unlimited answer subscription . But this is a little beyond what I was expecting. for

AudiDoc :

Oh that....ok, that will be tough for me, as I just do the tough car questions. I'd have to have you contact customer service for site-specific rules and policies

Customer:

As for the engine. We are 99% sure all valves are closed on both sides. Cranks is turning with little resistance. John (my hlpr is ahead of both of us)

AudiDoc :

Hard to think of a scenario where all of the valves can be closed

Customer:

Cranks is at #3 TDC. Want a pic emailed to you

Customer:

Or I can TM it to you

AudiDoc :

That would be fine, or just post it up here, but as I mentioned, I absolutely have to sign off now, or I'm going to have some pretty disappointed people at home in very short order

AudiDoc :

usually these chats are about 10-15 minutes

AudiDoc :

but I do like to make sure all information is given and you're happy with the information

Customer:

ok

AudiDoc :

So I can open it back up in an hour or thereabouts

Customer:

understand completely, yes all info and help was great. feel free to follow up later or let me know where to send results to. Whatever the norm is.

Customer:

Have a good evening & Thank you

AudiDoc :

no problem and thank you. I'll keep the chat open though, if you'll be on in an hour

Customer:

yeah will still be here and wont touch a thing

AudiDoc :

don't rate yet, ok?

AudiDoc :

if so, chat closes, and we'd have to start a new session

Customer:

got it

AudiDoc :

ok, til later

AudiDoc :

and I'm back on

AudiDoc :

Now, when we left this, you mentioned that #3 is at TDC?

AudiDoc :

So, the marks are lined up, and no collisions?

AudiDoc :

Still holding....

Customer:

yes, we believe the valves are close to be being closed on all cylinders and we rotated the crankshaft. However my hlpr had to leave so now Im contemplating just ordering the tools. If I remember correctly we needed the tools anyway to complete the job, yes?

AudiDoc :

absolutely, positively need the tools. I can assure you without a shadow of a doubt that without them, you will have a forever check engine light related to 1 or more cam position sensors

AudiDoc :

I do trusts you're using all new parts? Belt, rollers, tensioner, cam sprocket caps, and so on?

Customer:

so best thing now is to just close out session & resume another when tools arrive. How do I go about insuring I reach you when we resume the procedure.

AudiDoc :

yep, that sounds like a plan. I'll give you my direct link. There is a question box on that page. I'm alerted via my phone when you post there.

AudiDoc :

http://www.justanswer.com/car/expert-eurodoc/

Customer:

yes, rollers & tensioners seem fine. Still nice & tight. The time belt & water pump were replaced only because I was changing out thermostat in order to get heat back in the vehicle. With 118K on it why not do it all at once. I was contemplating replacing alternator also.

AudiDoc :

with 118k on it, if the belt job has never been done, replace all rollers and hydraulic damper.

AudiDoc :

Also, the heat problem is likely due to a partially clogged heater core

AudiDoc :

pretty common

Customer:

I blew out heater core a week ago. 1st symptom was no heat at all after several minutes of commuter driving. Temp guage reading normal. After I blew out heater core then the engine was overheating within minutes of driving. Next thing was thermostat.

AudiDoc :

Hmmmm....we'll touch on this if it's still a problem after the thermostat. They usually fail in the open position (thermostat).

Customer:

Thats when I decided to just do water pump & timing belt

AudiDoc :

yeah, I usually recommend 75k intervals due to the tightness of the belt stressing out the water pump....

Customer:

OK I will contact you directly when I get parts

AudiDoc :

sounds good. Take care

AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner
Category: Audi
Satisfied Customers: 6426
Experience: I've been working on Audis since I was 18 and own an independent Audi repair and performance shop
AudiDoc and 3 other Audi Specialists are ready to help you

JustAnswer in the News:

 
 
 
Ask-a-doc Web sites: If you've got a quick question, you can try to get an answer from sites that say they have various specialists on hand to give quick answers... Justanswer.com.
JustAnswer.com...has seen a spike since October in legal questions from readers about layoffs, unemployment and severance.
Web sites like justanswer.com/legal
...leave nothing to chance.
Traffic on JustAnswer rose 14 percent...and had nearly 400,000 page views in 30 days...inquiries related to stress, high blood pressure, drinking and heart pain jumped 33 percent.
Tory Johnson, GMA Workplace Contributor, discusses work-from-home jobs, such as JustAnswer in which verified Experts answer people’s questions.
I will tell you that...the things you have to go through to be an Expert are quite rigorous.
 
 
 

What Customers are Saying:

 
 
 
  • I would (and have) recommend your site to others I was quite satisfied with the quality of the information received, the professional with whom I interacted, and the quick response time. Thanks, and be sure that I'll be back whenever I need a question answered in a hurry. Stephanie P Elm City, NC
< Last | Next >
  • I would (and have) recommend your site to others I was quite satisfied with the quality of the information received, the professional with whom I interacted, and the quick response time. Thanks, and be sure that I'll be back whenever I need a question answered in a hurry. Stephanie P Elm City, NC
  • used your service this weekend with "Trecers" help. thank you ,thank you, thank you. replaced an A/C fan motor. Local Auto Zone had part. $15.00 "tracer" fee and $40.00 for parts, I saved several hundreds of dollers at a shop. i will recommend you and use you in the future. David L. Richmond, TX
  • 9 dollars, 2 hours of my time, and I drove away. Your diagnosis was right on the mark. Thank you so much. Phil Marysville, CA
  • Lurch. Thank you very much. I had real doubts about this website but your promptness of response, quick followup and to the point answer with picture was incredible. Charles Walnut Creek, CA
  • As a single woman, I really appreciate an excellent and affordable opinion.
    Thank you Geordie, I will not hesitate to contact justanswer in the future!
    Sue Charleston, WV
  • Another great insight to what may be the problem. I will have my mechanic take a look at it tomorrow. Thanks again, Frank...you do indeed know your stuff. Jim Castleberry, FL
  • Wonderful service, prompt, efficient, and accurate. Couldn't have asked for more. I cannot thank you enough for your help. Mary C. Freshfield, Liverpool, UK
 
 
 

Meet The Experts:

 
 
 
  • AudiDoc

    Independent Audi Shop Owner

    Satisfied Customers:

    1681
    I've been working on Audis since I was 18 and own an independent Audi repair and performance shop
< Last | Next >
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/audidoc/2008-12-23_175252_headshot.jpg AudiDoc's Avatar

    AudiDoc

    Independent Audi Shop Owner

    Satisfied Customers:

    1681
    I've been working on Audis since I was 18 and own an independent Audi repair and performance shop
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/35/350matt/2012-6-7_182356_matsavatr.64x64.jpg Matt's Avatar

    Matt

    Engineer

    Satisfied Customers:

    461
    Mechanical Engineer with 20 years experience in the auto industry, 8 yrs in formula 1 engine testing
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/MI/mikeamechanic/2013-4-2_175558_photo.64x64.JPG Mike Kelly's Avatar

    Mike Kelly

    Audi Mechanic

    Satisfied Customers:

    259
    17 years experience as a auto mechanic, foreign and domestic.5 years running my own repair business.
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/FourRingsTech/2010-01-26_135603_GetAttachment.jpg Michael Miller's Avatar

    Michael Miller

    ASE Certified Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    241
    ASE Master Technician. Audi certified, including R8 and TDI (clean diesel).
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/NA/nabilc/2011-1-24_205715_jap500.64x64.jpg Billy's Avatar

    Billy

    Trainer/Master tech.

    Satisfied Customers:

    229
    Trainer 8+ years, Master tech. 10+ years, SAE member
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/tsmodie/2009-6-10_144056_tim.jpg Tim Mohr's Avatar

    Tim Mohr

    ASE MASTER TECH

    Satisfied Customers:

    204
    30 YRS EXPERIENCE, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC, GAS AND DEISEL
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/CA/caprio23/2011-12-13_155550_20111213105344.64x64.jpg Anthony's Avatar

    Anthony

    ASE Certified Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    174
    ASE Master Automobile Technician with over 20 years exp. in this field.
 
 
 
Chat Now With An Audi Mechanic
AudiDoc
AudiDoc
Owner
1688 Satisfied Customers
I've been working on Audis since I was 18 and own an independent Audi repair and performance shop