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Jake
Jake, Technician
Category: Audi
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2004 audi a4 1.8 turbo awm jumped cam timing between intake

Customer Question

2004 audi a4 1.8 turbo awm jumped cam timing between intake and exhaust cams, have factory manual and it says to mark cams before removing, cant mark them because they are already out of time. cant find any info on retiming the cams to one nother. any help?    ps. i am an ase certified mechanic myself.
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: Audi
Expert:  Jake replied 5 years ago.

Hello,

 

Thank You for choosing Just Answer for your query. Yes, I can help you.

 

This one "bites" more techs than about any procedure I can think of. It is simple , but ambiguous. Marking it with paint is GOOD advise. I have NEVER heard of one "jumping" though. Typically they are incorrectly installed after associated repairs.

 

graphic

 

Here is the image you requested. Be sure to count exactly 16 pins between the two marks.

 

I hope that I have answered your questions and addressed your concerns. Should you have any further questions for me, please do not hesitate to ask. I want you to be 100% satisfied with my answer.

 

Positive feedback and bonuses are always appreciated! If you accept my answer please click on the "ACCEPT" button by THIS answer.

 

Thank You!

Jake "THE AUDI DOCTOR"

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
yes, i have this picture, this shows how many chain links between cams but it does not show the cams index. they are showing you how to mark the cams prior to removing them for retiming. my cams are jumped out of time with no markings. this picture does not show how to aquire proper cam timing if no marks were made prior to removale. i need a pic of the cam lobes with cylinder number 1 on TDC for comparison or i need some cam specs for degreeing the cam. thanks for your reply and i hope that you have some more info.
Expert:  Jake replied 5 years ago.

Yes, and no.

 

This IS a GOOD image the marks are the small square holes (smaller than the image) where the gear mounts on the shaft. The lines that extend to the location between the points of the gear, displays there orientation, so you no not think they line up with a point on the gear.

 

You get it?

 

Let me know.

 

Jake

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Jake, i am familiar with the square keyways on the end of the cams and am aware of thier location. it is not possible to have both key ways facing straight up at the same time as shown in the pic. if this were true you would have all five valves open at the same time on any given cylinder. the closest that we can get is with one keyway up and one down gets us very close. then on to the next problem, the variable valve timing chain tensioner, is it supposed to be pushed up or down at TDC? i hope you have some more advice for us because this engine sucks!
Expert:  Jake replied 5 years ago.

The marks DO point up as indicated. I am not sure what is going on based on your explanation. Perhaps you could tell me how this all came about because they DO NOT normally "jump time" between the intake and exhaust.

 

Do you have the special tool to collapse the adjuster? This is a required tool. You can get them on E-bay for less than $15. Also if you buy a new adjuster, it comes with one installed. I ask because you say "up or down at TDC?". It's not a matter of "up or down", it's more like in the middle. If you have been taking it in or out without the tool, it could very well be damaged. Also, if it looks worn, I suggest you replace it.

 

graphic

 

Was/is the adjuster guides damaged?

 

Is it possible that someone has replaced some parts (incorrect) before you getting the vehicle?

 

Perhaps if you told me how this all came about, it could further shed some light on the cause if this condition. I have set up MANY of these cams this way and NOT had any problems.

 

BTW, in your first post you indicated an AWM motor, should not that be an AMB motor? AMB was phased in 2002, you said this was a "2004 audi a4 1.8 turbo awm". Can you shed any light on this?

 

 

 

Thank You!

Jake "THE AUDI DOCTOR"

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
i do not know how this all came about on this engine, i took it on sight unseen. to be more clear on what model it is, this is a 2004 vw passat 1.8 turbo awm, same as the audi, i am just trying to get help from someone else because we have had no luck with vw folks, so i said that it was an audi. if the keyways are both up, all five valves on cylinder number 4 are all the way open with that cylinder on TDC and wrecks the valves. cylinder numbers 1 and 4 are together as im sure you know. the most correct timing that we have been able to aquire is (from the rear of the engine) at TDC, exhaust cam keyway at 3:00 position and intake cam keyway at 9:00 position. this timing has the lobes on cylinder number 1 exactly oposite of the valves at TDC, just like it should be. we have tried this over and over and over. the manual just doesnt make any sence, any other ideas? i dont mean to sound like an idiot with the tensioner question, its just that when turning the cams, the top tensioner jumps up and down, because no oil pressure?
Expert:  Jake replied 5 years ago.

"sight unseen" What does that mean? Was the vehicle apart? Did it run when it came to you? I do not understand.

 

OK, VW kept the AWM.

 

Are you SURE you have the correct marks??? Every image I can find in VW or Audi shows the lobes for #4 cylinder "UP", valves "CLOSED".

 

graphic

 

Is this the marks you are going by???

 

Based on your statements thus far, I believe you got this head dis assembled or mis assembled and the exhaust and intake cams are switched.

 

Pretty darn sure. If I read your last statement about mark and lob orientation, this matches the location of the orientation if you look at the above image.

 

Don't worry about the adjuster going up and down.

 

Let me know!

Jake

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
its a 20 valve, you cant switch the cams, and yes, these are the marks that i am going by, they are the only things on the cams. my cam lobes are 180 out compared to the pic. the pic shows marks up, lobes up toward each other. with the marks at the 12:00 position as shown, my lobes are down and the piston is up so they are fist fighting. any more ideas. PS: you have been very helpfull, thanks Brad
Expert:  Jake replied 5 years ago.

Hello brad,

 

Sorry I "misplaced" you. Have you made any progress? Right, can't mix them up, spaced that. I would like to get on apart and inspect, but have not had the chance.

 

Have you removed the gears from the cams? I have heard of the key way shearing, but never experienced it.

 

You still have not told me what "sight unseen" meant or the reported story of how this all came about and how you received the vehicle? Is this even the same cylinder head and cams that were in the vehicle when "whatever" happened?

 

Thank You!

Jake

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Jake
Jake
Audi Technician
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Over 30 years experience, 17 years with Audi, Factory trained