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Mike
Mike, Home Appliance Technician
Category: Appliance
Satisfied Customers: 17628
Experience:  I have been repairing appliances for 25 years, I run my own appliance repair business.
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I have an eight year old Kenmore 970-C45072-00 (aka Frigidaire)

Resolved Question:

I have an eight year old Kenmore 970-C45072-00 (aka Frigidaire) front loading washer. Everything works except it will not spin dry the clothes. The error code shows E43 on the LED lights, which indicates a faulty control board. I purchased a new motor control board (very expensive!) and it still does not work. I checked the resistance of the motor contacts M1-M2, M1-M3, M2-M3 and M4-M5 and they all are in spec.

My wife is freaking that we just wasted a bucket of money on the component the washer told us was faulty.

Any thoughts on what might be the problem?
Submitted: 8 months ago.
Category: Appliance
Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Hello my name isXXXXX will be assisting you with this problem today. Thanks for trusting us to help you with this appliance question.

Unfortunately you have changed the wrong control board, the control board indicated by the f43 error code is the main control board. This is the one located at the top of the machine, The code basically means the main control is not communicating with the motor control board.

I would like to earn your highest rating, If I provide you with a answer this just means with the symptoms you have supplied me I am letting you know from experience where the problem is, this does not mean however that we have finished, If you have any additional questions please reply.


If I have answered your questions to your satisfaction please feel free to come back at any time after rating me "Excellent service" for additional questions you may have at no further charge :)

Sometimes I will have to give bad news, Please try to find it in yourself to rate me for the service not the bad news.


If you would like to request me personally for future appliance questions click here HERE and bookmark this page.

Thanks!

Mike.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.

I just accessed this control board. I wish the guide was a bit more clear. I don't remember seeing this board offered on any replacement parts websites so I didn't consider what was behind the selector knob.


 


Of course there was no obvious damage to the original motor control board.


 


What a waste of money spent on a part I may never need. Oh well..


 


Thank you.


 


Jim

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Your welcome Jim

Hopefully you got the motor control from somewhere that will take it back.

I would like to earn your highest rating, If I provide you with a answer this just means with the symptoms you have supplied me I am letting you know from experience where the problem is, this does not mean however that we have finished, If you have any additional questions please reply.


If I have answered your questions to your satisfaction please feel free to come back at any time after rating me "Excellent service" for additional questions you may have at no further charge :)

Sometimes I will have to give bad news, Please try to find it in yourself to rate me for the service not the bad news.


If you would like to request me personally for future appliance questions click here HERE and bookmark this page.

Thanks!

Mike.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Do you know of any place that takes returns on electrical components sold to costomers?

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
As far as I am aware the the company in the link below ship to Canada. They will take back a part even after it is installed,

Click here

Mike
Mike, Home Appliance Technician
Category: Appliance
Satisfied Customers: 17628
Experience: I have been repairing appliances for 25 years, I run my own appliance repair business.
Mike and other Appliance Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

We bought the part at a Sears Parts depot with a no return stamped on the receipt. Oh well. Should have contacted Just Answer first.


 


What considerations are needed when replacing the control board behind the selector knob?


 


Jim

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
You would just need to take the top off the machine, Take the visible screws out along the top of the control, remove the dispenser and the screws inside the dispenser, Unclip the control panel from the machine, at this point it will be a matter of a couple of screws and swapping wires.

I would like to earn your highest rating, If I provide you with a answer this just means with the symptoms you have supplied me I am letting you know from experience where the problem is, this does not mean however that we have finished, If you have any additional questions please reply.


If I have answered your questions to your satisfaction please feel free to come back at any time after rating me "Excellent service" for additional questions you may have at no further charge :)

Sometimes I will have to give bad news, Please try to find it in yourself to rate me for the service not the bad news.


If you would like to request me personally for future appliance questions click here HERE and bookmark this page.

Thanks!

Mike.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Hi Mike,


 


I was able to purchase the 'other' control board the one behind the knobs. I attached all the connectors and started the washer. The unit however still does not spin dry the clothes. Again I did check the ohm readings on the motor and they checked ok.


 


My wife would give me a big kiss if I can get her machine running...


 


Jim

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Let me see if I can find a schematic for this washer Jim, I will post back in a bit.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

thanks Mike


 


I'm in and out but i'll check my computer as often as i can

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Ok Jim will likely take me some time since this is a canadian machine.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Hi Mike


 


This website should provide the documents you need.


 


http://b2b.frigidaire.com/support/ResultsPage.asp?strModel=970&USER=

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Hi Mike
Are your on today?

Did my link for documents help?

Jim
Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
I apologize I am not at my PC at the moment, I will get back to you in the am, thanks
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Hi Mike


 


Can we continue the troubleshooting process of our washer today.


 


Jim

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Hi Jim, I am on the road right now, I will be back at my PC around 2pm cst. We can continue then if you would like.

Thanks

Mike
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

OK

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Thanks Jim
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Are you back?
Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
About 15 minutes I will be
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Did you get a chance to look at the documents at the URL I sent?

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
I just got on to my PC, can you give me a minute to look up previous posts to see where we were.

Thanks
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Hi Mike


My wife is expecting me to have her washer up and running today.


 


It's been on the fritz for almost 2 weeks

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
I could not find your model number on that list you supplied, I must not be seeing it on the list you supplied, Can you find your model number then click on the tech data sheet and send me the link please.

I thought I already sent you this message but It did not go through for some reason.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

On that URL Frigidaire document do a FIND search for 970-C45072-00 and it will take you to all the PDF documents for that washer

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Ok so you replaced the control board at the top of the machine?
Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Ok I found it but still am having trouble with a parts break down, Can you give me the part number for the control you replaced.
Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
was the part numberNNN-NN-NNNNorNNN-NN-NNNN
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

The control board PN at the front of the machine was XXXXXXXXX The replacement part I received was XXXXXXXXX The replacement unit did not have the connection for the reed valve that was located by the laundry soap drawer.

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
could you give me those part numbers again, the system blocked them.

try this format 1234.1234.1234
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

XXX-XX-XXXX XXX-XX-XXXX

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
The system blocked the numbers again, it thinks you are giving me your phone number.

What I am trying to determine is what the frigidaire model number is XXXXX your machine, basically sears do not make their own machines, they take a frigidaire machine, put their own logo on it and assign it a sears model number.

of the two part numbers i gave you, is either part number the control you replaced? if not try giving me the part number like this abcd123456789abcd, if you add some letters it may not block the number
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

abc134/34/5600as


abc137/00/5010as

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.

Ok according to my info the one you have the control is no longer available for Kenmore washers. The control board they gave you does not cross reference to your machine.

However when I cross reverenced to Frigidaire I found that it is still available but under the Frigidaire part numberNNN-NN-NNNNbr/>
I still am of the view that the control board is bad, since the board is no longer available and it does not have any other board that it crosses to other then Frigidaire I cant really tell you whats going on.

Are you still getting a e43 error?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.

The code presentation on the replacement board presents differently than the original board. The original board would repeat the codes E43 but this board appears to flash E46 and then stops. It will repeat the same code if you push the start and cancel buttons again.


 


The original board shows no indication of visual damage or cold solder connections under a strong lighted magnifying glass.

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Ok does the machine drain?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

yes

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
And the only thing the machine will not do is spin?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

That's right. Both boards have the same issue. The machine with add water for a rinse, do about 20 slow tumbles in both directions, and then drain without spinning. Is there an imbalance interlock?

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
No but I have seen this before, Grab the tech sheet, should have the instructions for testing the door switch, Check the door switch and the door latch.

I have a feeling the board is throwing you this code because the door switch is bad.

There are only 3 things with this machine that prevent a spin, the door switch/lock, motor control, blocked drain.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

OK, I will get back to you in a few minutes.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.

There is open continuity whether the door is open or closed. Would a bad door interlock not shut down other functions?


 


How do I get into that tight spot? How about I jumper the spades on the board to simulate the door being closed and see what happens?

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
The switch should read conituity when the door is closed, open when the door is open, If you are reading open when open and shut youve just found the problem.

You can get to the switch by removing the metal band that holds the door gasket in place, Un-hook the door gasket from the front of the machine, Push the door gasket back, you should have access to the switch.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Why does a faulty switch not affect other functions and why would the E code indicate a bad board? I've sunk $500 into boards I don't need.


 


Could I try to jumper the and do a rinse / spin to confirm your diagnosis?

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Because the switch it there for the spin only, it's a safety device, I don't see why you cant bypass the switch to test it.

Unfortunately you were the one who put the motor control in the machine, I told you that you replaced the wrong board, if you look at the tech sheet it says replace main control for that error code, It was only by talking to you tonight through experience i realized the switch may be at fault.

Hopefully if the switch is the problem you can return the two boards and get your money back, if you got them from a supplier that does not take returns, you have a very good chance of getting most of your money back by selling them on ebay. These are common boards that go bad.

Mike
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

The Ecode chart said replace the "control board". I didn't notice until after I bought the wrong one that there were 2 control boards, the other board referred to as the speed control board.


 


I'll try Ebay.


 


The gasket on this machine must be different as it does not have a retaining ring that I can see.


 


There are two screws holding the switch interlock block in place. If I remove those screws I could fish out the block but getting back in place to secure it would be extremely difficult.


 


Any other suggestions?

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Problem is Jim I have been totally unable to pull up a exploded parts diagram for this model, I'm working on auto pilot with this one, If there is no retaining ring around the gasket it means the gasket is glued. Carefully pry the switch out with a screw driver, pull it through, I'm fairly sure this is a normally open switch so bypassing it should allow the spin to run.

"replace control board" kinda does tell you that yes you should replace the control board, most of the time that would fix this code, I have come across this occasionally that the switch is bad.

Look at it this way, at least if the switch is bad the machine can be used until the new switch arrives, you'll get most of your money back, and most importantly you wont be paying child support and alimony :p
Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
I will be online watching the LSU - Alabama Game if you need anything else or need some back up with your good lady :)
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

i jumped the spades on J2 and when i started a wash cycle the indicator lights for the speed of spin dropped from high spin to no spin and the normal wash or rinse spin did not even start. I need clean coveralls so I removed the jumper and started a quick wash cycle which is running now with the high speed spin indicator light on. It did not spin.


 


Are you available after the game or tomorrow? The drawing shows the door interrupter switch in circuit with a wax motor ???, a door lock and a door lock auxiliary switch. How do these interact?


 


My wife just gave me a tea with a slice of fresh banana loaf for tenacity but some reward romance tonight would be in the cards for successful troubleshooting, if you know what I mean...


 

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Yes I will be here all day tomorrow, yes I do know what you mean :)

Like I said I am working on auto pilot here so the switch may be a normally closed switch.

The big problem i have is there are several models that Frigidaire make, im trying to work out if you have the equivalent gallery, affinity or other Kenmore model machine.

I absolutely love Banana Loaf and being a Englishman I love tea, don't see much these days of both unless I pop across the border to Niagara on the lake :)

Mike
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

That's an expensive place to enjoy tea and loaf.


 


Were you able to see the wiring diagram so we can be on the same page?

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
The link you provided didnt have a wiring diagram, only the tech sheet and user manual, if you have a copy of the wiring diagram or the link it would help me so much determine the problem here.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

how can I send it to you?

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
do you have a copy or a link?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

I provided the Frigidaire link last week ( http://b2b.frigidaire.com/support/ResultsPage.asp?strModel=970&USER=) which provides a pdf of Washer Tech Data Sheet (the same document) found inside my washer with instructions on getting a code, The Ecode chart, trouble shooting directions and a wiring diagram.


 


I have the door lock solenoid block out

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
I got that, it does not include a wiring diagram.

quick question, does this machine have a removable panel under the door?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

There were a number of manuals offered for the machine. You must have picked the wrong one. I downloaded one that was a carbon copy of the doc found in my machine.


 


There is a panel but not sure how to open it. Not sure anything is behind it.


 


I can fax or email you a scan of the schematic.

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Ok if there is a panel under the door, it comes out by removing the 3 screws along the botXXX XXp of the machine by the door, Below I have included a link to the machine I think this is, maybe you can look at the service manual and tell me if i have the correct machine.

click here
Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
or this one

Click here
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Last link is blank
I googled a wax motor and there was a link describing how a faulty wax motor cause a no spin situation on a Neptune washer. Any chance it may have a similar effect on my Kenmore?
Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
yes if your machine has a seperate wax motor,

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6qscO7sqEaxMDluVmIwWXYybTQ/edit?usp=sharing
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
What do you mean by a separate wax motor?

There is no actual door closure interlock limit switch. The door tongue gets locked when the start button energizes the lock solenoid and then turns on the wax motor to push down an arm to cause two points to make contact.

Can I connect 120 volts to the wax motor to check if it works?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
My dog is nuzzling me for a run. Be back in 15 if you're still up. Otherwise we can get to the bottom of this tomorrow.

Thanks.

How can I get the right schematic to you?
Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Older locks had a separate motor, all the new locks are built in.

Your problem wont be with the lock but will be with the switch, if the door is locker when the machine starts the cycle then the lock is ok, the switch is what tells the control the door is shut.

Focus on the switch.
Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Since you have already accepted, I dont see why it's against terms for you to send it to me, XXXX@XXXXXXXXX-XXXXXX-XXXXXXXX.XXX

scan it to pdf and email it to me.

Thanks
Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Ok Jim, this is a normally open switch so you would not be able to bypass it, You would need to replace it. Test it with your ohm meter, if it reads open when both pressed and not pressed this will be your problem.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

There is no actual switch. Only the wax motor that moves and forces the contact of two points, which I assume is the signal the control panel uses to allow high speed spin. I applied 120V power to the wax motor and although it gets worm it does not move linearly. Could I solder the two points to bypass the effect of the wax motor to get the washer working?


 


Jim

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
No Jim, you could end up causing more damage, normally there is a seperate switch, I would replace the door lock.

Where have you been getting the parts? a local parts supplier?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Did you receive the emailed photo of the door lock block with the cover removed?


 


I purchase parts from the Sears parts depot

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Yes I did, I suspect your lock/switch is bad, my best advice to you Jim is to put the machine back together with the original control, run the manual diagnostic test on the door lock, this should tell you if the lock is not functioning correctly.
Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Also if you look on the tech sheet there are tests you can perform on the door lock and ptc.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

what is a PTC?

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
The door lock
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

What does the acronym PTC mean?

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Not sure what it means but it is basically a resistor.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Positive temperature co-efficient - PTC heating elements


 


The resistance on the PTC in the wax motor when cold was about 1500 ohms. When it was warm it was about 700.


 


It seems the PTC is fine but the wax motor is defective. The wax motor performs two functions in the assembly. It positively latches the door lock mechanism and simultaneously closes the contact points for the door switch signal to the control board.


 


The schematic shows two normally open door switch contact points (main and auxiliary). I'm confused as the diagnostic chart indicates that the control board is looking for continuity on the J2.1 and J2.2 wires.


 


Until I get a new wax motor or if necessary a door lock assembly , can I fool the control board?

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
No this is why the switches are there as a safety device. prevents the machine spinning if the door lock is faulty or unlocked. This is a part you should be in stock, If the wax motor is reading faulty then this is the problem.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

I am confused with the diagnostic step #7 testing the J contacts (R/B and Blk wires).


 


The test chart indicates that if the continuity shows open, the lock assembly is defective. Looking at the contacts in the lock assembly associated with the R/B and Blk wires, the contact is in fact normally open and my lock assembly does not look damaged or mal formed. The door switch contact would only be closed when the solenoid is energized and / or the arm of the wax motor slides over the detent on the locking bar ensuring the points are closed indicating to the control board that the door is closed at locked.


 


My point is, why would reading an open circuit as per Test #7.2 on page 5 indicate a faulty door switch assembly?


 


The above conclusion is when the assembly is in my hand.

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Basically what it's telling you to do is check the reading wile the door is closed, when the door is closed you should read continuity, if you are getting a open reading then check the door strike to make sure it's not damaged and not making the correct contact with the switch. If the door strike is good then it's telling you the door lock is bad, replace it.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

How do I provide a tip at this stage of the transaction?


 


Sorry Mike, I forgot to mention that I had removed the striker from the door and inserted it into the lock assembly. Oddly, other than the white lever pivoting when the striker is inserted, which allows the points under the copper leaf to close when the solenoid is activated there are no mechanical changes made to any of the switch contact points. The solenoid activated main switch and wax motor actuated aux switch) only make contact when both the solenoid is energized and the heated wax motor extends.


 


Not to beat a dead horse but my point is this; based on what I see with both contact points being in the normally open position, an open circuit would be perfectly normal for Test 7.2 and would not be an indicator of a bad lock assembly.


 


In my case the circuit test #7.2 did show an open circuit but the actual fault was really caused by the wax motor not extending to close the switch points signally to the control board that the door was closed and safe to spin.


 


Sorry to belabor the issue but I am a marine engineer and want to fully understand the circuit. Please let me know if my conclusions are correct.


 


BTW, I read on a repair blog that the wax motor should also be replaced whenever the control board is replaced.


 


Thanks.


 


Jim


 


 

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Sounds to me Like you are correct Jim, I definately think this will cure the issue although I to this day will not understand why you were getting a communication error between the MCU and main control.

If you scroll all the way back to where we started you should see a button that says bonus or something like that, you can click on this, it's very much appreciated.

Thanks Jim
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

what is the MCU?

Expert:  Mike replied 8 months ago.
Motor control unit

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