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Equipment : soft ice cream machineMake : Electro FreezeModel

Resolved Question:

Equipment : soft ice cream machine

Make : Electro Freeze

Model : 88 TNCAB-113

Three dispensers chocolate (left) twist (center) and vanilla (right)


The vanilla works fine but the chocolate side every day after 5:00 pm (approximately) the ice cream gets hard to the point where it won`t flow smoothly. I have to put it on night mode until the ice cream gets soft again. The Electro Freeze technician can`t find the problem.

Compressor seems to be working fine.

Thank you

Paul
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Appliance
Expert:  Michelle-Mod replied 1 year ago.
Hello,

I'm Michelle and I'm a moderator for this topic.

We have been working with our professionals to try to help you with your question. Sometimes it may take a bit of time to find the right fit.

I was checking to see if you had already found your answer or if you still needing assistance from one of our professionals?

Please let me know if you wish to continue waiting or if you would like for us to close your question.

Also remember that JustAnswer has a multitude of categories to help you with all your needs from Pet to Legal.

Thank you,

Michelle~Moderator
Customer: replied 1 year ago.


Hello Michelle,


 


I`ll continue waiting.


 


Thanks


 


Paul


 

Expert:  Michelle-Mod replied 1 year ago.
Hello,

Thank you, XXXXX XXXXX continue to look for a professional to assist you. Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance while you wait.

Best,

Michelle-Moderator
Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.

Welcome to Just Answer!

The machine you have uses what we call an 'Evaporator Pressure Regulator Valve' to control the temperature of each freezing cylinder. Most general appliance repair men do not see these types of valves often so are not familar with them... that is probably the case here.

These valves are about the size of a small lemon, and have an adjustment stem on them that can be turned to increase the evaporator pressure and that raises the temperature of the freeze as well.

Most commercial refrigeration repair shops are familiar with the valves and can easily adjust it for you.

If you can tell me which direction you in from the center of the nearest city I might be able to find a qualified service company for you.

Let me know, we can go from there without any time limit as long as you keep rating my replies positively.

Thanks!

Phil

Customer: replied 1 year ago.


Phil,


 


Thank you for your information. I will check for those evaporator pressure regulator valves as per your description. Do you need special equipment to calibrate those valves or is it just of matter of turning a screw to adjust the evaporator pressure which I assume changes the temperature at the same time.


I have a good technical background, mechanical engineer, who likes to work with tools.


Also, if a technician is required, I`m located in St-Jerome, province of Quebec, (just north of Montreal), Canada.


 


Phil, your help is appreciated and I will get back to you once I take look at the machine in more details.


 


Regards


 


Paul


 


 


 

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.

Hello again Paul, the EPRV valves fit in *series with the suction line* between the compressor and the evaporator, generally mounted midway between.

CLICK HERE FOR SOME PICTURES
. some of those diagrams are incorrectly drawn showing the EPRV mounted off of a tee (that is not correct of course)

 



EPRV designs vary... yours most likely has the pressure adjustment under a cap on one end, shown on some of the drawings.

1/4 a turn changes the evaporator pressure quite a bit...1/2 to 1 degreeF in some cases. your ice cream stiffness is sensitive to less than 1 degreeF change.

The way to adjust it without service gauges is to load the machine with product and let it stabilize for half an hour or longer, then turn the adjustment 1/4 of a turn counter clockwise.. keep good notes on what you do. Let it stabilize for at least 30 minutes.

If the icecream gets even more stiff you are going in the wrong direction....turn the adjustment clockwise in that case clockwise 1/2 turn. That gives you a net 1/4 turn clockwise. Give it at least half an hour between 1/4 turn adjustments.

You should be able to get it working right again.


Stay in touch as needed.

As long as you keep rating my responses positively I will hold the question open for you, and you will be able to get back to me for months after that if necessary.

Phil

Phil, Shop owner
Category: Appliance
Satisfied Customers: 5923
Experience: Degree, Mech. engr. shop owner. 51 years experience
Phil and 6 other Appliance Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hello Phil,
Sorry about the delay but I was away and I had no access to Internet.


I have two questions.


Do I have to rate your service at each e-mail or at the end?


See attached sketches for pictures of the machine itself. After analyzing the problem here is what I found. The chocolate side freezes up and I think because the beater and compressor cut in (for a cycle) it does not stop or cut out for a long time and when this happen I have to switch to night shift for the compressor and beater to turn off. What controls the cut in and cut out of the beater and compressor? Is it the Ranco temperature controller?


If you refer to sketch no. 1 (and sketch no. 3) is this the evaporator pressure reducer valve you are referring to? There is only one on the chocolate side and none on the vanilla side.


 


Thank you for your patience


 


Paul


 


P.S. I don't know if you will be able to see the pictures!


 


 


 

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again Keith.... you have already rated this question once, there is no need to rate again... I will keep working with you until we get the situation resolved or reach a technical impass.

Here are my thoughts so far:

Since the system works by and large but simply gets the chocolate side a bit too stiff....not frozen solid... just a bit too stiff to dispense easily. The chances that the problem is with the vast complexity of the electronic controls are less than 10%...and that the problem is with the devices that merely control the temperature of the ice cream to plus or minus 1 degree F...

Messing with or adjusting other aspects of the machine will tend to get us in trouble.

When you put it in night time, stand by mode it shuts down varous components but keeps the ice cream at stable temperatures.... that function has nothing to do with the operating temperature controls.

I did not get any pictures, You might try posting them to www.flickr.com and sending me a link. I could use a photo of the wiring diagram on your particular unit as well, it is glued to the inside of the service panel.

We can go from there.... there are no time limits with me.

Phil
Customer: replied 1 year ago.


Phil,


 


I have to create an account in Flick and also find an electrical drawing.


 


I`ll get back to you once I have those. It might take a few days.


 


Many thanks


 


Paul


 

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again, the electrical schematic should be glued to the inside of one of the service panels... thats the one I need.. those often differ from whats in the manuals on any particular machine.

No rush. Post back when you can.

Phil
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hello Phil,


I`m back. Couldn`t find the wiring diagram inside the service panel so I had to get one from Electro Freeze. See attached file for the wiring diagram. They sent it in 4 pages so you are going to have to glue them together to get the full picture.


Also, I loaded some pictures in Flick. My user name is `XXXXX@XXXXXX.XXX".


 


Hope this helps.


Paul Jean


e-mail XXXXX@XXXXXX.XXX


 


PS. Phil I can`t attached the pdf file (wiring diagram). Do you know how?


 


 

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again, the company does not allow us direct email or telephone contact... it defeats their peer review procedures.

So we have to work through the company's email address for that purpose.

experts@justanswer.com
You can send pictures to them attention, Alumalite

_______________

The wiring diagram will help but mostly I need pictures of the inside of the machine where the refrigerant piping and compressor are and where the insulated ice cream cylinders are, so I can point out which of these valves are the evaporator pressure regulator valves.

Those valves will not be on a *wiring diagram.

Phil

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hello Phil,


 


I just e-mail to experts @ just answer.com attention alumalite the pictures and also the wiring diagram.


 


If you need more info, don't hesitate to contact me.


 


Paul


 

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Thanks Paul, I will get back to you as soon as our guys forward them to me, should be later today or tomorrow.

Phil
Customer: replied 1 year ago.


No problem Phil. Take your time.


 


Paul


 

Customer: replied 1 year ago.


Phil,


 


Are you still there?


 


Did you look at the pictures on Flick?


 


I was on vacation for a week but now I'm back.


 


Anytime you can contact me.


 


Paul


 


 

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again Paul, I have not seen a link to any photo's you posted on Flickr yet.

Post that link and I will look at them and get back to you.... no one at Just Answer has forwarded such a link to me either... if it is a flickr set of photo's you can simply post that URL address here. I will get it immediately.


Phil
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Phil,


 


The link is on Flick is paul_jean86.


 


Paul


 

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again,

Just open your photo's and post the URL that works a lot better for logging the photos on this end. to post the URL just copy the address bar at the top of your screen and paste it here.

Thanks
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again, thanks for the pictures.

We need to know which of the two Ranco controls is for each side of the machine. Those are ice cream temperature controls.

The other picture of the valve with the red/orange top and the hexagonal adjustment on top is very likely an evaporator pressure control... let me know if you can find another one on the machine.

Next remove the cover on one of the Ranco controls and give me the model number of the control. we might be able to solve the problem by adjusting one of the controls, make no adjustments without marking on the control how far you turned the knob on top... the knob should be marked 'warmer or colder' in this case once we have established which control goes to the side of the machine thats running too cold, turn that knob very slightly to the 'warmer' direction.. no more than 1/16th of a turn.

Let me know how that goes. We can proceed from there.

Phil


Phil
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Phil,
The two Rancon temperature controllers that you see on the pictures are: one for the night and the other for day operation. I have a similar set up for the vanilla side. (there are a total of four, two for the chocolate(one night and one day) and ditto for the vanilla side. The model no. is(NNN) NNN-NNNN


The red/orange valve with the hexagonal screw (picture 1802) which I think is the thermal expansion valve; I have two, one for the chocolate and the other for the vanilla. The are located at the entrance of the evaporators.


There is also a third one, black with a hexagon screw (see picture 1802)which I don`t know what it`s for. I think it could be for milk storage container.


Also, I have the instruction sheet for the Rancon valve. Do you need a picture of the instructions?


 


Thanks


 


Paul


 

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again, thats good data, the Ranco controls would work for day and night functions but are not accurate enough for temperature control.

I am interested in the valves with the orange heads, those are not expansion valves, but are evaporator pressure controls, 98% chance of that.

Locate the one that is for the side running too cold, and turn the hex head bolt on top 1/4 of a turn counter clock wise and see if the ice cream runs a little softer on that side or gets harder.... do trial and error that way. wait 30 minutes between each adjustment. Do not exceed one full turn.



Keep careful notes on which way you turn the hex head bolt so that we can always return to its current position if necessary.


Let me know the results, we can go from there.

Phil
Customer: replied 1 year ago.


Phil,


 


Thank you. I shall do that, however it`s going to take me a couple of days since the machine is in a remote area about twenty miles from my home.


 


I`ll let you know a.s.a.p.


 


Thanks again.


 


Paul


 

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
There is no rush here, good luck.

Stay in touch,

Phil
Customer: replied 1 year ago.


Phil,


Here is what I found out.


Contrary to the vanilla side where the compressor cuts in and runs for 15 seconds and cuts out for several minutes depending on the load, the chocolate side (sometimes, not all the time) cuts in and keeps on running until we manually turn it off (by switching to the night shift mode) and this is when the ice cream freezes.


I did not touch the evaporator control valve screw because I think that the problem could be with the Ranco timer.



What do you think?


 


Thanks


 


Paul


 


 


 

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again Paul

You did well not touching the evaporator pressure control screw given the possible sticking switch contacts you may have discovered.


when you are referring to the 'ranco timer' are you referring to one of the ivory colored Ranco switches shown in your first photo? If so those are not timers but thermostats with remote bulb sensors on them... If you can remove the front cover from one (one screw in the front of the cover) and give me the model number of the ranco control I can be more specific)

We can go from there.

Phil
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hello Phil,


Your are right, they are thermostats and you see them on the first picture.


 


The make is Ranco and the model no. is(NNN) NNN-NNNN It has two adjustment screws one for differential and the other for range. I assume that the range one is for the temperature setting and the differential is for the cut-in/cut-out.


 


Thank you for your patience.


 


Paul

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again, the contacts might be burnt and sticking on the Ranco control that is connected to the chocolate side. They are enclosed in black plastic and difficult to inspect.

A note printed just below the temperature adjustment scale should read...

"cut out is cut in, minus the differential"

Please confirm that.

If the contacts are sticking adjusting it will not help.

We can try adjusting it however to see what happens... **this is tricky business, be cautious, take notes on what you do so you can return to the current setting"

Do not rely on the pointers for setting the control... they don't show minor changes in adjustment, and any change that can be seen on the control is too large of an adjustment in most cases.

Remove the cover on the thermostat... press your finger on the pointer that marks the temperature setting on the temperature scale so you can **feel** it move up or down.

Mark the large knob position.

Now turn the large knob until you feel it go up or down.... notice which direction made the pointer move upwards... turn the knob in that direction 1/16 of a turn.

Mark the new knob position.

Lets see how that goes.

Phil
Customer: replied 1 year ago.


Phil I'm back,


 


I did what you asked me, however, wasn't too sure of myself, so I called a technician and he replaced the Rancon temperature controller.


 


So far the problem is solved.


 


I'm very satisfied with your help. I have two questions, first where can I rate your services and second is there a way I can leave you a tip.


 


Thank you and have good day Phil


 


Paul

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again Paul! Thanks for being so considerate.

I will put the ratings box up, you can leave a tip there too.

Thanks!!

Phil
Phil, Shop owner
Category: Appliance
Satisfied Customers: 5923
Experience: Degree, Mech. engr. shop owner. 51 years experience
Phil and 6 other Appliance Specialists are ready to help you

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Degree, Mech. engr. shop owner. 51 years experience