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william
william, Home Appliance Technician
Category: Appliance
Satisfied Customers: 3033
Experience:  Major Home Appliance Technician Specialist Whirpool Certificate
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Hi. You helped me about year ago with one of my dishwashers.

Resolved Question:

Hi. You helped me about year ago with one of my dishwashers. Can you use your help once again. I have a Kenmore Elite dishwasher, model #665.16263402. The unit is cleaning dishes and cookware just fine on the lower rack. But we are now getting rather poor cleaning on dishes stacked on the upper rack. Noticed also that food spills on the upper walls of the tub are also not getting cleaned away that well, either. I have tried to do some diagnostic checking, and I am suspecting it is possible I am not getting enough water pressure coming into the impeller arm mounted on the bottom of the upper rack, and also the mini-impeller that is mounted dead center on the roof of the tub. I have done some opening/closing tests to see if the impellers are moving. I do think the impeller on the upper rack must be rotating to a certain degree, as I find it always in a different position. But the mini-impeller on the roof seems to be always in the same position, so I don't think that one is even rotating, at all (and it rotates freely by hand). Very clearly, the impeller at the tub bottom is rotating well, as it should.
With all that said-I have had other DW units in my life, where I was able to trouble shoot upper rack cleaning problems by easily seeing that the plastic plumbing directing water to the upper impellers was cracked. But in this case, I don't see anything loose or cracked with the water tubing that apears obvious. And I don't see anything visibly wrong with the upper rack impeller, or the roof-mounted mini impeller assemblies.
I have tried running the DW unit's diagnostic cycle, which I know also resets the unit, but this seems to have no effect. It is hard for me, however, to follow the diagnostic sequencing, however, as I don't think the chart in the diagnostic sheet actually matches what this unit does in the diag. cycle. In any case, I don't think I am getting any fault indications-unless you can direct what to check.

I have also a control DW to compare to-I have also a second, near-identical model in the same kitchen. That unit is working just fine both top and bottom, so that proves there is no household water pressure or hard water problems. I ran the diag. cycle in the the other unit too, just to see-and it does not seem to follow the print chart I have, either for cycle duration or events.
So this case of the poor cleaning in the upper racks has me stuck, as nothing appears obvious to me. I would appreciate your guidance, before I end up with an expensive service all from Sears.
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Appliance
Expert:  william replied 3 years ago.
How old is this D/W that you have now?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
purchased and installed January 2006. A top of line Elite model.
Expert:  william replied 3 years ago.
Its not that old. Do this for me please take the spinners and spin them for me and tell me how it spins okay? Thanks.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

The bottom spinner, the middle spinner (the one mounted under the upper rack) and

the mini spinner (the one mounted on the tub roof) all spin and rotate just fine. No resistance or restrictions.

Expert:  william replied 3 years ago.

There is a screen in the watervalve selenoid that might be plugged up a bit. You will have to switch off at breaker then take the bottom toe kick panel off and take the waterline off and take the selenoid off and check it out. Do this and see what happens also what kind of detergent are you using> Get back with me on this. Thanks.

Im still here for you if this dont work then we will look further.

 

 

 

 

Please press the accept button this is how im paid for helping you today.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Ok, will take a look. It would be easy be this unit has the Kenmore extra-large tub, so the clearance under the toe-kick area is extremely tight compared to conventional models.

 

I think I know what you are thinking about- I have done this before on another DW in another house, and that valve was clogged because we had really bad hard water in that town, the valve was not salvagable and had to replace it. But once I installed a water softener, the problem disappeared. But in this current house we don't have hard water in this town. We have no mineral deposits on the facets or in showers, and other twin DW unit is working fine. So I am guessing there is going to be no condition present that will clog up that water valve?

Expert:  william replied 3 years ago.
Can you re-check that model number for me please for some reason that one you gave me comes up as a washing machine. Thanks.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

The following is taken from the information located on the manufacturer's plate, located

inside the door sill-

 

Stock: 16263402

 

Type: 577-0

 

Model: 665.16263402

 

Serial #: FS5106121

 

Regarding the water valve you mentioned as a possibility, yesterday-I have done that replacement before on another DW model, and I know that the usual symptom for dirty dishes is that a faulty valve causes insufficient amount of water to enter the tub. But I tried running the DW just now this AM to check that-the water level inside the tub seems correct-please note that I have a second, virtually identical model of the same DW installed in the same condition. I ran the twin, also, as a control. The water level in the other unit matches what I see in the unit in question. Water level comes right up to the rim of the main spinner housing in the bottom of the tub. So I tend to doubt the amount of water present is the issue.

 

 

Expert:  william replied 3 years ago.

Check this picture out and check out number 9. also check out that oblong water piece that supplies the water to the spinner make sure that that dosent have any holes or a slit in it then tell me what you find.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
That coupling piece, part #9, appears to be in sound, intact condition. I checked and ran my hands along the full length of the water-supply piece, starting from tub spinner and all the way up to the mini-spinner on the roof. That assembly seems to be intact, with no visible signs of cracks or splits. As said, I think the second spinner (the one mounted under top racks) get's some rotation, but maybe not fast enough. I don't think the mini-spinner on the tub roof is rotating at all, as I always find it in the exact same position, when I open the door.
Expert:  william replied 3 years ago.
Have you ever done what they call a vineger wash? Or used this product call dishwasher magic? Im gonna look at the inner working of this.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
No, have not. But if you tell me what to do or get, ready to try. It seems almost like there is a clog in the supply line that feeds the upper spinners, as for the life of me I cannot find any cracks or obvious leaks, , unless it is leaking through the fittings.
Expert:  william replied 3 years ago.

Heres something i want you to watch. Let me know if this helps you okay. also i would put in a new top spinner since thats not turning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRCCrEwrst8&feature=player_embedded

Expert:  william replied 3 years ago.
Try this first and hopefully this will help you with your issue, your not getting enough water up to the top parts.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Can I get that top spinner changed from inside the tub, without having to remove the DW from the cabinet enclosure? (I can turn it by hand easily, I just suspect it is not getting enough water flow). Will check your you-tube link, shortly.

 

I watched that video, and that is amazing. You gotta love You-Tube, regarding the depth of information you can find, there. That depicted my internal assembly, for sure. And I feel optimistic that I will find that to be the cause of my problem. I will pull the assembly apart and let you know the result.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

William


I opened up the basin assembly, per the video (per easy, once you see a demo as to how the parts are laid out), and I was shocked what I found in there: large (I mean LARGE) pieces of chicken bone, olive pits, pistachio nut shells, pieces of plastic food wrap. I live with just one wife and one teenage daughter, and the debris I found in there was not from me. How anyone could think to load in dishes together with bones, pits, and nutshells is beyond my comprehension. If you would like a photo of the debris for your own demo use purposes, let me know your email and I will zap it to you. I have taken a picture, just so I can show my wife the reasons for why she was thinking we might need to replace a five year old DW.... In any case, I just ran a quick rinse test, the water is now dripping off the roof of the tub like Niagra Falls. So I think problem solved and mission accomplished. Thanks. I never would have thought to look for a demo video like that one on You-Tube.

Expert:  william replied 3 years ago.
I thought that this would be a help to you better that you see it for yourself as for me to try to explain it which is a rough job. Sure shoot that picture i will use it for demo purposes. Glad you got it going!!! Thank-you and your welcome.
william, Home Appliance Technician
Category: Appliance
Satisfied Customers: 3033
Experience: Major Home Appliance Technician Specialist Whirpool Certificate
william and 7 other Appliance Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
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