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Appliance Tech Dave
Appliance Tech Dave, Home Appliance Technician
Category: Appliance
Satisfied Customers: 1656
Experience:  30 years experience specializing in Whirlpool, KitchenAid and Kenmore
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I have a Kenmore elite washing machine type 111. #110-16922502/ser#cs3102850

Customer Question

I have a Kenmore elite washing machine type 111. #110-16922502/ser#cs3102850 with a spin problem. The machine washes wonderfully but about every third wash the spin does not engage. If I catch it soon enough like in the rinse or spin cycle I can open the lid and grab the wash tub and move it about an inch or so and it will finish the cycle completely. The spin will work if I do this. You have any easy solutions to this problem? I can repair it if I know what I am looking for to solve the problem.
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: Appliance
Expert:  Appliance Tech Dave replied 5 years ago.
Hello, there are 2 things that could cause this problem. The timer must stop the motor after draining the water to allow the transmission to engage the spin. If you get the pause after drain but it starts without spinning you will need a gearcase, (transmission).
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Hi Dave,
The unit does stop between cycles and then starts again. Is the gearcase(transmission) bad even if I can engage the spin and phisically move the wash tub to engage the spin cycle ? With your experience have you ever had the clutch or clutch spring go out with this type of problem?
Expert:  Appliance Tech Dave replied 5 years ago.
The clutch very seldom causes any problems. There are several small plastic parts in the gearcase that hold the washer from spinning the first time the motor reverses from agitation and starts to drain. This is called neutral drain. Since you timer is working what is occurring is that the second time you manually stop the motor the gearcase finally comes out of neutral. The gearcase number XXXXX(NNN) NNN-NNNNand it is $167 from Sears. There are other places you could fine one too.
Appliance Tech Dave, Home Appliance Technician
Category: Appliance
Satisfied Customers: 1656
Experience: 30 years experience specializing in Whirlpool, KitchenAid and Kenmore
Appliance Tech Dave and 4 other Appliance Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Thank you Dave,
You have been very helpful and understanding. I respect your expert opinion and will be looking for a transmission soon. I have no manual on this machine or a breakdown of parts and assembly. Will Sears also have the manual or would you recommend another outlet or website that could supply me with this information?
Expert:  Appliance Tech Dave replied 5 years ago.
Sears should have a manual. It should say it is for a direct drive washer. This means there is no belt. The motor mounts to the transmission and is removed before you take out the three 1/2" bolts that hold in the transmission. Up top all you remove is the bolt holding in the agitator. There are other steps but these are the major ones. Always unplug the washer first!
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
7/5/2009
Hi Dave,
I finally found the time and received the part to install the gearcase in my washer. I followed the steps in the service manual and found no problems with assembly of the unit.
It seamed pretty basic to me. I took care to not force anything and made sure everything went back together the same as it was when I started. I still have the same problem unfortunately. When the wash cycle is complete the unit will not go into spin cycle. The timer takes all the steps and after wash it go into neutral then stops for a few moments then starts the rinse cycle with agitation through the complete cycle. The tub empties but no spin, then stops, spin cycle starts but does not spin. If I catch it soon enough I can open the lid and hear the gearcase shift (klunk) and it will spin.
What do you think? If I had more knowledge on this subject I could troubleshoot but I don't at this time. I have 12 years experience as a tech in pneumatic air tools and gas powered nailguns, compressors,mowers,trimmers etc. but not this. You are the expert this time and I need help.
Hope to hear from you soon,
XXXXX XXXXXXXX@XXXXXX.XXX
Expert:  Appliance Tech Dave replied 5 years ago.
Kevin, if you let it go by itself it will not spin? Even if everything is working properly it will klunk and start to spin the first time you stop it when it is draining. The important thing is knowing that the timer puts in the pause after the giving enough time for a full load of water to drain. You told me it did pause before you accepted so that is why the grearcase was the problem. The timer is only bad if it stops washing, starts to drain and goes ALL the way to the end without stopping to allow the spin. From what you say the timer did pause but only came out of neutral the second time you stopped it? This would be a bad gearcase again. Sometimes in the winter when they are cold this will happen until they warm but not in the summer. Let me know.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Dave,
Your telling me that the new gearcase I installed has the same problem, defective part ? Have you had a mess of calls relating to faulty gearcases in Kenmores' direct drive washers. If so maybe I bought the wrong washer, or Whirlpool should recall the part. With these symptoms we know it's not the timer. Since it washes the clothes and stops when it should then it should switch gears and spin. You seam pretty sure that it could only be the gearcase.
I have another question relating to assembly that I found. When I open the unit and disassembled the lower end. There was a thrust washer on the gearcase shaft between the clutch and brake assembly. Does this thrust washer look like a shallow hat or does it look like a thick compression washer. The illustration in the service manual does not look like what was found in the washer.
Kevin
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Dave,
I will be sending the gearcase back for a replacement. I will wait for your reply before doing so - so I can be sure that the thrust washer has nothing to do with the problem.
hope to hear from you soon,
thanks for the help
XXXXX XXXXX

Expert:  Appliance Tech Dave replied 5 years ago.
Kevin, from what you say the new gearcase you put in is shifing but not at the first pause during drain where spin should start. This is a bad gearcase. Above the clutch the washer you are talking about is not a thick washer but is rounded off at the edges more loke a shallow upsidedown pan. In the center it has a "tooth" that I allways put into the enclosed end of the clip under it that pushes onto the shaft. Even if you didn't place it there it won't stop it from spinning. The part that has failed in the gearcase is the neutral drain pack that has the small plastic parts. I have seen them installed wron on new gearcases. Sorry for all the extra work. You will get it going.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Hi Dave,
I got it going. I did a lot of research and found out that if the clutch is spinning but the inner drum does not when the unit is opperating, then it possibly could be the clutch spring or a dirty or worn lining. I have replaced the clutch assembly and the unit works perfectly. I kept watching for five loads of clothing and never had the problem again.
Thanks anyway, I know now that the gearcase probably won't go out for a long time. Thanks for the info on the upside down pan washer, it is the same as you described and I installed it the same.
Kevin
Expert:  Appliance Tech Dave replied 5 years ago.

Kevin, sorry if I pointed you the wrong direction. Diagnosing by email is not as good as being there. Take care.

 

Dave

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