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Kelly
Kelly, Appliance Technician
Category: Appliance
Satisfied Customers: 11538
Experience:  Highly accurate diagnostician with over 30 years experience!
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I have a kitchenaid model KUDR24SEWH2 dishwasher. Lately,

Customer Question

I have a kitchenaid model KUDR24SEWH2 dishwasher. Lately, it won't pump enough water to spin arms (upper or lower). Pump runs, fills and empties normally. Bought new impeller kit and installed it along with new washers for the lower arm. It made no difference. the unit sounds normal in operation, just pumps minimal water when washing. Ideas????
Submitted: 6 years ago.
Category: Appliance
Expert:  Kelly replied 6 years ago.

Hi, thaks for using JustAnswer.com. Did you replace the radial bearing, (# XXXXX in the attached picture)? Were the little floating balls in the sump when you installed the new impeller kit? Is the unit getting enough water?

 

Kelly

Expert:  Kelly replied 6 years ago.

Also, is the filter assembly clean? (# XXXXX in the pic)

 

 

 

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Yes the unit is getting en ough water, I have even manually added water during the cycle just to be sure. Yes, there were two plastic balls (small mMarble sized) inside the pump housing. I do not see an attached picture, but did not replace any bearings. Pump/motor shaft is tight with no leaks.
Expert:  Kelly replied 6 years ago.

 

# XXXXX is the radial bearing. The ridge wears off and it binds the lower spray arm...

Expert:  Kelly replied 6 years ago.

I just thought of something else...is # XXXXX in the pic below in good shape with no holes?

 

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Yes, I replaced the bearing, but it made no difference. I even totally removed and plugged the lower arm water outlet and the pump still will not not pump enough to put water out the upper arm. In addition, I have another one of these dishwashers in the house (two kitchens) and they sound alike when operating, but the other one spins the arms and cleans the dishes fine - just like this one always has until recently.
Expert:  Kelly replied 6 years ago.
It sounds like you have covered all the bases. I guess the next step is to replace the entire motor/pump assembly. Are you sure everything is installed properly in the sump, the impellers, seals, etc.? The only thing that would impede water distribution is the things you've checked and the motor/pump ass'y. I am not sure what to tell you, other than replace the whole assembly...
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Yes, everything is installed correctly. I compared the impellers, etc in the repair kit to the originals and there was virtually no wear on the originals, so I'm not surprised that the kit didn't fix it - and certainly the originals were installed correctly because it had worked for five years or so. Does this motor ever run backwards? Is it possible that the controls are messed up and are running the motor backward? A centrifugal pump will pump a small amount when spinning the impeller backwards. PS - If I had to replace the entire pump/motor, I would just buy a new dishwasher - not a very satisfying answer.
Expert:  Kelly replied 6 years ago.

The motor runs backwards to pump the water out. If it were running backwards there would be no water in it...

 

How do you know it is not spraying the water around when it runs? Are you just finding stuff on the dishes? Have you checked your incoming water temp?

Customer: replied 6 years ago.

Incoming water temp is good. I know that no water is going through the upper arm because I can place it right beside the detergent cup and neither the detergent cup or the arm itself gets wet. I open the door after the pump has run for 30 seconds or so and find that neither the upper or lower arm has moved and that the detergent cup and upper arm are dry. I do notice a lot of agitation in the standing water below. Again, water level is good, almost touching heat coil, fills and empties fine, sounds normal, goes through all cycles fine - just don't pump much water. Installed new impeller kit (old ones showed no appreciable wear) and cleaned pump casing thoroughly (had almost no scum/buildup). Is it possible that the little plastic balls have worn down from their original size and that is somehow allowing the pump to cavitate/starve/lose suction???

Sorry to keep stringing you along, but rest assured that you will be paid - whether we solve this problem or not.

Expert:  Kelly replied 6 years ago.

The size of the little plastic balls has likely not changed, but it is possible they are out of place. When you changed the impeller kit, did you go down below the chopper assembly and change the lower seal, etc.? I'm not too worried about the money...I just want to get you an answer that will help you. Please, do not accept if you feel you have not gotten your money's worth...

Kelly, Appliance Technician
Category: Appliance
Satisfied Customers: 11538
Experience: Highly accurate diagnostician with over 30 years experience!
Kelly and 3 other Appliance Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Seal below chopper looks good and feels tight, has water level standing and does not leak a drop. Let me clarify my motor question. If the controller has the ability to command the motor to run both directions, is it possible that in the wash cycle only, the controller has lost its mind and is commanding the motor to run backward? If that happened, would it just pump the water out the drain - or might we see this result? Is there some other valve that must open to pump the water out the drain? Also, is it possible that the filters built into the housing look clean but are restricting too much water flow?
Expert:  Kelly replied 6 years ago.
When the motor pumps the water out, it reverses direction. There is no other component for pumping, like additional valves or solenoids. When you start the cycle and it fills up and the motor starts, if it were turning backwards it would immediately drain. You would hear the water draining or atleast find the tub empty if you opened the door after about 2 minutes. It is possible that the filter assembly is plugged with gunk that is hard to see. You can remove the filter and spray hot water through it and see if it is clogged or not. However, you will not be able to see the internal water ports in the filter. I have never seen one that was plugged and not noticeable, but it would not be impossible. There are small holes in the bottom of the filter housing that the water passes through....
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Does the motor have multiple speeds? Is it possible that the controller is spinning the pump at too low a speed? I'm groping, this is a tough one.
Expert:  Kelly replied 6 years ago.

No, only forward and reverse...Smile

 

This is indeed a stumper...did you have the same scenario BEFORE you put the impeller kit in?

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Exactly the same. I didn't think the impeller kit would fix it, but it was a relatively easy thing to try (and because I didn't have a new impeller to compare with until I mail ordered it, I thought that there might be some non-obvious wear on the old one - there wasn't). does the housing ever have wear issues?
Expert:  Kelly replied 6 years ago.

 

One thing you might check is # XXXXX in the diagram. It is a rubber seal of sorts that directs water around in the sump. See if there is a hole or something in it, and be sure you get the check balls in the right place on reassembly. I suspect your trouble is in this area...

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Part number 40 looks good, but in this diagram, it looks like there is two part number 7. Is this the little plastic ball? Mine has only one located at part number 5 and one at number 7 - not two. Could this be the problem? Maybe one of the originals cracked/broke/etc. and was washed away - what do you think?
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Part number 40 looks good, but in this diagram, it looks like there is two part number 7. Is this the little plastic ball? Mine has only one located at part number 5 and one at number 7 - not two. Could this be the problem? Maybe one of the originals cracked/broke/etc. and was washed away - what do you think?
Expert:  Kelly replied 6 years ago.
Yes, this certainly could be the cause of your problem. Those little balls direct the water flow, and if missing will not direct it properly. I believe we may have identified your problem...finally! Smile
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
This is the truly the problem that keeps on giving. The Kitchenaid part number for this little plastic ball (check valve) is 719929. When I try to buy this part from suppliers online, it is listed as "discontinued by manufacturer, no known supply source". Help!
Expert:  Kelly replied 6 years ago.

They are available at C E Sundberg Co. They have two in stock. Call 1-800-735-3796, talk to Tate and he will get you fixed up...

 

Kelly

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