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Curtis B.
Curtis B., Technician
Category: Agriculture and Farm Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 26027
Experience:  Technican turned service manager on multiple lines of equipment and rental equipment.
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I have a Ford 9N with front end loader and 3 point lift in

Customer Question

Hi. I have a Ford 9N with front end loader and 3 point lift in the back. The pump was working as I could lift or lower the bucket or 3 point lift. But I could not get the bucket to smoothly articulate up (return from dump position). However, it seemed the pump was working when I tried to articulate the bucket as the engine would bog down when I moved the control lever to dump or raise the bucket. I checked all lines free of clogs and had the single piston rebuilt by a local hyd shop. I was trying to trouble shoot the problem and was adjusting a single adjustment screw on the control lever assembly for the 3 point lift. That was when all hydraulic items quit working. Not sure why. The tractor still runs, the hydraulic pump on the front of the engine is still spinning. But there is no hydraulic movement and the engine no longer bogs down with movement of any of the 3 hydraulic control levers. Any ideas? thank you. Mark in Falcon, Colorado just outside of Colorado Springs.
Submitted: 27 days ago.
Category: Agriculture and Farm Equipment
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 27 days ago.

Hi,let's see if we can work together to get to the root of your problem! will try my best to help!

Expert:  Curtis B. replied 27 days ago.

You say pump is turning, but do you have oil flowing from the outlet side of the pump? f you remove line from the bucket cylinder, do you have oil to it from the control valve? If no oil moving, I suspect the pump has had internal failure.

Customer: replied 27 days ago.
Thank you Sir. I will check these two items this evening when I get home and respond via this site.
Customer: replied 27 days ago.
Sir, as you figured, I have no fluid flow from the hydraulic pump output nor from the line to the bucket cylinder when I actuate the control valve. So as you figure, I assume I have an internal hydraulic pump failure. The engine shaft to the pump is spinning. One thing I wish to remind though is that before yesterday, my pump seemed to be working fine on most functions. I could raise and lower the bucket, I could raise and lower the 3 point lift on the back of the tractor. I could lower the bucket to the "dump" position. It was only giving me problems in raising the bucket back up from the "dump" position. So yesterday I assume I either did something to cause a pump internal failure or it just failed on its own. I have included several pictures of my hydraulic pump, the bucket cylinder, the control valve actuators that lift and lower the bucket and dump or raise the bucket from the dump position. The last picture is the control valve actuator for the 3 point lift. The line from the hydraulic pump comes directly to that 3 point lift control valve actuator and then on to the control valve actuators that operate the front end loader bucket. One last point that confuses me. The only thing I was doing yesterday before the hydraulic pump quit working is I was adjusting an adjustment screw on the face of the 3 point lift control valve actuator. You can see it in the picture next to the single control lever. I do not claim to know what it does and it doesn't even appear to do anything at all. I just thought I remembered at one point my tractor mechanic having me turn it a few times to try and adjust pump output. After I loosened the lock nut and turned that screw all the way into the housing, the pump quit working. Thank you Sir.
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 27 days ago.

The last picture, with the single lever and the screw with lock nut. That screw would be the man pressure relief valve. If valve does not relieve the pressure, it will overload the pump and can damage the pump. Remove the screw ans see if it may have collapsed or went too deep into the housing. It should have been a needle valve with a spring to tension it. The more spring tension, the more pressure you would have.

Customer: replied 27 days ago.
I will send a couple more pictures tomorrow. I removed the screw and there is not a spring behind it. I definitely turned that screw far in to the housing and probably damaged the pump in the process . The screw threads in to a fixture that I could remove from the face of that control actuator assembly if that were recommended right now when I look into the threaded hole there appears to be nothing there except for a Metal face I can see at the base of the whole. If there was a Spring inside the threaded hole at the base of the threaded plug it is not there now and may have flown across my garage floor. But I do not currently see it. I will upload a couple of pictures of this assembly and the screwplug tomorrow morning. Thank you sir
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 27 days ago.

OK> This is an add on loader and pump and valve, but it looks substantial and is plenty big enough!

Customer: replied 27 days ago.
Uploaded 3 more pictures. Yes sir. Plenty substantial and big enough. In fact, before this problem, my biggest challenge was that the hydraulic pump would bog my engine down to almost quitting when I articulated the bucket to dump and back up from the dump position. Didn't bog the engine down when just lifting or lowering the bucket or the 3 point lift though. So I'm pretty sure I blew out the pump by adjusting the main pressure relief valve too far in. So whatever we do to fix that, once that is all resolved/repaired/replaced, I assume we will still have the problem with the bucket articulating up from the dump position.
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 27 days ago.

Yes, take the next section of the relief valve out. It should screw out, it has hex on it to use wrench on it. I think the relief may have caused the overload of the pump.

Customer: replied 26 days ago.
Good morning Sir. I tried to loosen and remove that next section of the relief valve before going to work this morning. It is in there very tight and I was not able to remove it . It is in there really tight. As my Father always said, tonight I'm going to try to go and buy a bigger wrench.......... When I remove that section, will hydraulic fluid pour out?
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 26 days ago.

No, you already have it open.

Customer: replied 26 days ago.
Sir, the bigger wrench worked. My Father is vindicated! Please find attached the pictures of the opening and the rest of the relief valve. Not sure if these pictures help you or if you need them at all or of something different.
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 26 days ago.

Were there other parts in the housing? Nothing broken or loose/

Customer: replied 26 days ago.
Not that I am Able To See or feel with my finger.
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 26 days ago.

My thought was ,what was the screw against? Or was it just plugging a hole?

Customer: replied 26 days ago.
If you mean the smaller screw that fit into the face of this larger relief valve, it appears that screw threaded in to basically a dead and well. At the base of the hole for this screw it appears to be a dead end. Wow I could certainly be mistaken in this I do not claim to understand how this relief valve works or how the screw on the face of it that I originally removed functions either.
Customer: replied 26 days ago.
However I do believe this, my hydraulic pump stopped functioning when I turned that I would or screw as far as possible into the threaded well hole on the face of this relief valve. One other point when looking through the small holes on the sides of the relief valve there appears to be an inner item inside the relief valve which is visible. I have no idea if that inner item is movable or is out of position or could be adjusted in some way.
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 26 days ago.

Have you had a look at the pump yet, to see if it is broken?

Customer: replied 26 days ago.
No sir I have not and would not know how to proceed with doing so.
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 26 days ago.

Unbolt the pump and look for broken shaft or gears! You say it is not moving fluid.

Customer: replied 26 days ago.
It is not movin fluid. My assumption is I will need to remove it from tractor frame and open the pump housing up so as to look inside for broken parts?
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 26 days ago.

maybe, it may be obvious when you unbolt it. Looking at the drive , looks to be a offset gear drive.??

Customer: replied 26 days ago.
I will remove and examine tomorrow after work. As I progress I will send pictures. Thank you Sir.
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 26 days ago.

Thanks>